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-   -   So with test cricket starting in about a week... (http://www.cricket247.org/community/showthread.php?t=23065)

mustardcharlie 29th June 2017 04:12

So with test cricket starting in about a week...
 
Isn't it time we started talking serious cricket? I can watch and listen to a little bit of Sloggerama, but with only about a week to go I think that we should be discussing the 5 day game. What do people think the Eng team should be? I would have the following line up:

1. Cook
2. A.N. Other
3. A.N. Other
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Ali
8. Rashid
9. Wood
10. Broad
11. Anderson

This, of course, leaves the 2 and 3 positions open. Do we go for Hales, Hameed, Jennings, Malan, somebody else? Ballance maybe? The bowling attack is also open. Ball for Wood? Not really worried whether we play any of the bats at 5,6,7 in any order. Can we squeeze Buttler in there?

The SA team, even without Steyn and DeVil is still strong. Would leave that up to the Saffer fans to put their preference though.

Rebelstar 29th June 2017 07:37

Isn't it cheating to let Other bat twice?!? ;)

But seriously, has to be Hameed or Jennings, I'd argue possibly both. Jennings made a hundred and a fifty in his two Tests in India, a 0 and 1 as well but still enough to show he has ability.

Hameed has also done well enough before injury, more consistent but not yet got his hundreds column off zero. (early days for both of course, 10 knocks between them)



I'd be surprised and disappointed if we played both Rashid and Ali, I'm no fan of having six bowling options and Root is more than capable of turning his arm over IF necessary, so if you want to get Buttler in the side then bat Jonny and Buttler keep

I don't follow county cricket that closely, but I thought Anderson had injury issues......... (not that Stokes doesn't have problems)

sanskritsimon 29th June 2017 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebelstar (Post 761210)
... I'd be surprised and disappointed if we played both Rashid and Ali, I'm no fan of having six bowling options and Root is more than capable of turning his arm over IF necessary, so if you want to get Buttler in the side then bat Jonny and Buttler keep ...

I think you pick your best three seamers and your best spinner, and then you pick the best batsmen to bat above them. If the best batsmen give you extra bowling options then so much the better; but you wouldn't want to pick an inferior batsman because you wanted to avoid having too many bowling options. As for Buttler, despite having played in our last few tests I don't think he'll be in consideration either as a wicketkeeper or as a specialist batsman.

Ali TT 29th June 2017 10:17

Ali plays in the top 5.

Not sure we need another spinner in the match but Rashid or alternative should be in the squad so they can decide game day.

Hameed should be nowhere near the squad. County season for him, followed by A tour and a reassessment next year. A chance for Stoneman, perhaps? Although I'm not convinced he's a better alternative than ones of recent years such as Robson or Lyth.

England's record v SA at home since readmission is not great. Won one series, drawn twice and lost the last two. Since we last beat them in England we've defeated every other test side home and away at least once (except Zimbabwe).

Rename the thread to England v SA test series?

1000yardstare 29th June 2017 10:41

SKY poll - Who should open with Cook?

Hameed 52%
Jennings 32%
Stoneman 17%

12436 votes

geoff_boycotts_grandmother 29th June 2017 11:19

I don't see why Jennings would be dropped. He's the man in possession of the shirt, is averaging 40 in tests and is in reasonable form having scored two half centuries for the Lions the other day (Hameed got 0 and 2).
That means he opens with Cook.

That leaves probably one batting place up for grabs. If we look at county form:

Hameed 214 runs at 19.45
Ballance 815 runs at 101.87

geoff_boycotts_grandmother 29th June 2017 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustardcharlie (Post 761208)
Ball for Wood?

Ball's been ruled out.

Broad's a doubt as well.

oldandfat 29th June 2017 11:38

Hameed has the potential to be a seriously good international player, however, at present surely he is unselectable?

Cook
Jennings
Stoneman
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson

Is what we should pick

mustardcharlie 29th June 2017 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother (Post 761225)
Ball's been ruled out.

Broad's a doubt as well.

There is also Willey of course. Don't know why Plunkett is playing for England A atm. The selectors know enough about him. I just read the bad news about Ball. The truth is that all our best seamers are injured, injury prone, down on pace etc., getting on a bit. How many overs can Stokes currently bowl in a day?

mustardcharlie 29th June 2017 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldandfat (Post 761226)
Hameed has the potential to be a seriously good international player, however, at present surely he is unselectable?

Cook
Jennings
Stoneman
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson

Is what we should pick

Not sure about Foakes. Where does he get in instead of Buttler? Or Stoneman come to that. Jennings would certainly be my choice in the top 3.

oldandfat 29th June 2017 14:40

Too be honest I have reservations about Foakes keeping - his method looks odd. But Butler is not a great keeper either and I cannot remember the last time he played a substantial innings. Bairstow needs to play at 5 as a specialist batsman.
Other way forward would be to keep Root at 3, play Bairstow at 4, and bring Balance in at 5?

sanskritsimon 29th June 2017 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldandfat (Post 761245)
... Bairstow needs to play at 5 as a specialist batsman. ...

I really do wish that this tiresome suggestion would go away. However, it's increasing looking like there will always be a high level of moaning about Bairstow, regardless of the format. Maybe he's just that kind of chap; but personally I've had quite enough of Bairstow moaning for this season already.

Bairstow's happy keeping wicket, we have plenty of fine batsmen to put in at nos 1--6, and there's no good reason to suppose that Bairstow would score more runs were he not wicketkeeper.

As far as I can see the only sensible reason to take the gloves off Bairstow, or even to suggest such a thing, is in order to be able to argue about the wicketkeeping slot again. But in the real world, Bairstow surely has the test keeping spot nailed on until he retires.

oldandfat 29th June 2017 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanskritsimon (Post 761246)
I really do wish that this tiresome suggestion would go away. However, it's increasing looking like there will always be a high level of moaning about Bairstow, regardless of the format. Maybe he's just that kind of chap; but personally I've had quite enough of Bairstow moaning for this season already.

Not moaning about Bairstow, he is one of the best 3 batsmen in the country and IMO he has the ability to be a great player.

"Bairstow's happy keeping wicket, we have plenty of fine batsmen to put in at nos 1--6, and there's no good reason to suppose that Bairstow would score more runs were he not wicketkeeper."

Keeping for two days is simply not conducive to being a mainstay of the batting - Sangakarra?!?
Also who are these fine batsmen to play at 1-6 who you are confident will score runs in Australia this winter?

sanskritsimon 29th June 2017 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldandfat (Post 761249)
... Keeping for two days is simply not conducive to being a mainstay of the batting - Sangakarra?!?

I think that Sangakkara, who spent much of his test career as keeper at no. 3, is a rather different style of batsman to Bairstow. Bairstow may have the ability to develop into a top-class accumulator, but we may never know, and that doesn't matter. I think he is a good fit for no. 7, and I'd want the main mainstays of the batting to be the batsmen who have the temperament never to be tempted to try to force the pace. Having Stokes at no. 6 is already a bit risky for my liking. More generally, though, you might say the modern way is to consider the keeper batting at 7 to be one of the mainstays of the batting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldandfat (Post 761249)
Also who are these fine batsmen to play at 1-6 who you are confident will score runs in Australia this winter?

My hypothetical selections for the next test are there on the selection panel thread. I'd like to add Hameed and Livingstone. The general point is that I think we have a lot of batting quality around, and having Bairstow at 7 can reflect that depth. It smacks of desperation to de-glove a keeper and turn him into a batting specialist. The last time we tried that -- with Buttler over the winter -- it didn't work and we really were desperate.

Ali TT 29th June 2017 17:45

I agree with Sans about Bairstow. If he plays as keeper, he stays at 7. Having that type of counter-attacking batsman is a huge asset, regardless of the relative talents of those above him in the order. One could take the gloves off him, and promote him to 4 or 5, but we would then need to decide on who to replace him. I just don't think Buttler cuts it at test level in either discipline. Foakes, who I'd pick over Buttler, is very much an unknown and is probably less talented than Bairstow.

AJ101 29th June 2017 18:37

I'm not a big fan of taking the gloves off Bairstow but a couple of points.

Kumar was a much more productive batsman as a specialist rather than as a keeper/batsman, that may have been down to natural progression though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanskritsimon (Post 761246)
Bairstow's happy keeping wicket, we have plenty of fine batsmen to put in at nos 1--6, and there's no good reason to suppose that Bairstow would score more runs were he not wicketkeeper.

Who are these fine batsman the cupboard has looked pretty bare for quite a while now in my eyes at least.

Hameed shouldn't be picked with the form he's in I don't think it would do either him, the team or other players any good at all. Jennings I would expect to keep his spot. No idea who takes the other batting spot it's all a bit worrisome at the moment with the number of injuries.

sharky 29th June 2017 20:19

It'll be Ballance at 4 with Jennings opening I'm sure. It's a shame for Hameed as he looks the real deal but his time will come again. It'll be interesting to see what kind of fit seam attack they come up with. I wouldn't be surprised to see Curran get the nod to bowl in tandem with Jimmy to learn the ropes.

JRC67 29th June 2017 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharky (Post 761268)
It'll be Ballance at 4 with Jennings opening I'm sure. It's a shame for Hameed as he looks the real deal but his time will come again. It'll be interesting to see what kind of fit seam attack they come up with. I wouldn't be surprised to see Curran get the nod to bowl in tandem with Jimmy to learn the ropes.

Reading The Telegraph article I'd be surprised if it's Ballance plays. Bayliss clearly thinks his technique isn't up to the top level. Jennings will play. I'd guess it's a toss up between Stoneman and Malan from what has been said. Will mean nearly all left handers in the top order.

Not sure why either Buttler or Foakes are seen as potential keepers over Alex Davies. He's also dispelling the myth a keeper can't bat up the order. He's a better keeper than Buttler and on the little I've seen of Foakes better than him too ... and scoring a lot more runs than either.

billyguntheballs 29th June 2017 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustardcharlie (Post 761208)
Isn't it time we started talking serious cricket? I can watch and listen to a little bit of Sloggerama, but with only about a week to go I think that we should be discussing the 5 day game. What do people think the Eng team should be? I would have the following line up:

1. Cook
2. A.N. Other
3. A.N. Other
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Ali
8. Rashid
9. Wood
10. Broad
11. Anderson

This, of course, leaves the 2 and 3 positions open. Do we go for Hales, Hameed, Jennings, Malan, somebody else? Ballance maybe? The bowling attack is also open. Ball for Wood? Not really worried whether we play any of the bats at 5,6,7 in any order. Can we squeeze Buttler in there?

The SA team, even without Steyn and DeVil is still strong. Would leave that up to the Saffer fans to put their preference though.

Jennings to open. Hameed is too young to be a current replacement.

Why should Root not be at three?

I also think Plunkett should get a call over Wood in tests, for now at least.

I'd go with:

1. Cook
2. Jennings
3. Root c
4. Bairstow
5. Ali (a classy batsman when given the opportunity and should slot into the mo, has done well anyway)
6. Buttler
7. Stokes (could be in buttlers position)
8. Rashid
9. Broad
10. Plunkett
11. Anderson

12th man Wood

South Africa are probably going to have a tougher time picking their best combination.

I'd go with:

1. De Bruyn
2. Elgar
3. Amla
4. Faf c
5. JP
6. Bavuma
7. QDK wk
8. Morris/Philander
9. Maharaj
10. Rabada
11. Morkel

Doesn't seem like a strong outfit tbh. The bowling looks good but a lot of these guys have been smashed around in ENgland already and wont have the best confidence.

The middle order looks uneven. I'm not sure if this will be as good as the last couple series these teams have had.

sanskritsimon 29th June 2017 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharky (Post 761268)
... It's a shame for Hameed as he looks the real deal but his time will come again. ...

I wouldn't be so sure. That's certainly what's commonly when someone who's obviously fantastic has somehow pi$$ed on their chips; but although it no doubt makes it easier for the fond onlookers, it may or may not be true. Only a few months ago they were saying it about Duckett but I doubt anyone believes that now. Truth be told both of those batsmen may now have missed their only chance. I'd say with both of them their best chance is to move to Yorkshire if at all possible.


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