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-   -   Mbargogate (http://www.cricket247.org/community/showthread.php?t=23447)

mustardcharlie 29th September 2017 23:25

Mbargogate
 
Such a big issue this, I felt it deserved its own thread. England''s vice captain in a brawl outside a night club. Police investigations ongoing. No word from the ECB. I invite people to put their thoughts here. I know what mine are.

I know my own failings. To sadly misquote the words of Thomas Hughes "Never fight unless you are forced to. Once you make that decision to fight, do not give up while you can stand and see ".

Obviously I am no well known sportsman, but I shall be out on the razz in Sunderland next weekend. Loyal family, younger cousins, will ensure that I get home safely. Are we so insolent to believe that Bristol is safer than Sidney?

Summer of '77 29th September 2017 23:42

Bored by it all now. And not a little irritated too - it's been an unwelcome distraction away from the more important cricketing issues of the past week.

AJ101 29th September 2017 23:45

Where's Sidney? I'm guessing somewhere in Sunderland?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summer of '77 (Post 770785)
Bored by it all now. And not a little irritated too - it's been an unwelcome distraction away from the more important cricketing issues of the past week.

Other than the naming of the Ashes squad has there actually been any important cricketing issues this week? 4 day tests (will fade out as quickly as it's arrived) and Middlesex being relegated due to a crossbow dashing their over rate?

Summer of '77 29th September 2017 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ101 (Post 770786)
Where's Sidney? I'm guessing somewhere in Sunderland?



Other than the naming of the Ashes squad has there actually been any important cricketing issues this week? 4 day tests (will fade out as quickly as it's arrived) and Middlesex being relegated due to a crossbow dashing their over rate?

Yes, the conclusion of the County Championship, the most important issue in English cricket

Michelle Fivefer 29th September 2017 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ101 (Post 770786)
Where's Sidney? I'm guessing somewhere in Sunderland?



Other than the naming of the Ashes squad has there actually been any important cricketing issues this week? 4 day tests (will fade out as quickly as it's arrived) and Middlesex being relegated due to a crossbow dashing their over rate?

It's an important issue for Middlesex and I have a lot of sympathy.

mustardcharlie 30th September 2017 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summer of '77 (Post 770785)
Bored by it all now. And not a little irritated too - it's been an unwelcome distraction away from the more important cricketing issues of the past week.

Such as? The fact that one of England's best cricketers may not play on an Ashes tour bores you? What are these more interesting cricket issues that interest you then? Middlesex relegation is looked upon with joy by many.

mustardcharlie 30th September 2017 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer (Post 770790)
It's an important issue for Middlesex and I have a lot of sympathy.

Sympathy for Middlesex? Why?

Summer of '77 30th September 2017 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustardcharlie (Post 770794)
Such as? The fact that one of England's best cricketers may not play on an Ashes tour bores you? What are these more interesting cricket issues that interest you then? Middlesex relegation is looked upon with joy by many.

See my answer above.

mustardcharlie 30th September 2017 00:53

Sidney is a poofter defended by our noble Lord Stokes. I meant Sydney of course.

mustardcharlie 30th September 2017 00:54

Personally, I would like to see Essex, Surrey, Middlesex and Hampshire all relegated and England to only pick players from north of the Trent and the West country. Then we might start to win things. The point of the thread was to discuss Ben Stokes and that situation.

mustardcharlie 30th September 2017 01:30

I was a single dad for 10 years. I have been called a paedo, a homo, and various other names which would only get blanked out on here. I am not Ben Stokes' size, a mere 6'2" and 15 st, I have reacted in similar fashion when I have seen women being assaulted in the street and been arrested for it. If that bores you Summer 77, why bother to comment?

This thread is about Ben Stokes, not the MCC. Other than the obvious ie not going out half way through a series on the razz at 2.30 am, being a well known sporting personality, have you got any reason to object to his actions?

From what I have heard, I would have done exactly the same.

mustardcharlie 30th September 2017 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summer of '77 (Post 770797)
See my answer above.

Put it on the County Championship thread. I can't see its relevance here. How on earth does this concern Ben Stokes?

Michelle Fivefer 30th September 2017 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustardcharlie (Post 770795)
Sympathy for Middlesex? Why?

You don't have to hate all the counties that aren't the one(s) you support. I think the point deduction was harsh in the circumstances.

mustardcharlie 30th September 2017 02:12

Irrelevant to Mbargogate though.

mustardcharlie 30th September 2017 02:52

How can anybody get from Ben Stokes decking a guy outside a Bristol night club to Middlesex getting relegated is beyond me. I opened this thread to discuss Ben Stokes and take it away from the Ashes or any other such. Trivialities like Middlesex, Lancashire, Yorkshire and the like are inappropriate here.

This thread is about Ben Stokes defending a couple of gay guys outside a Bristol night club at 2.30 am in the morning. He was subsequently attacked with a bottle and went rather over the top. Several other England players were out on the razz at the time. Sam Billings was one. Alex Hales.

I cannot say that I would have reacted any differently to BS as a 25 yo if threatened by a young thug with a bottle. Agree he should not be out at that time half way through a series. His actions I can sympathize with.

sharky 30th September 2017 08:24

I do find the Middlesex thing sums up the wonderful ridiculousness of cricket. Who could have imagined a team could get relegated as a result of a crossbow? It's utterly ludicrous.

Ali TT 30th September 2017 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharky (Post 770812)
I do find the Middlesex thing sums up the wonderful ridiculousness of cricket. Who could have imagined a team could get relegated as a result of a crossbow? It's utterly ludicrous.

I'm confused, why are talking about county cricket here? I assumed from the thread title it was about the constant leaks of England test squads before the official announcement, but that the OP had missed the e off embargo.

I do hope Middlesex get those points back, especially as the pitch doctors above them really don't deserve to stay in CC1.

Corbo 61 30th September 2017 09:47

The over used something gate annoys me more than the story..that was a specific Yankie presidential event some decades ago.. how it relates to all and sundry is beyond me..a similar story to do with political shenanigans is understandably but lazily referred to something gate but a punch up outside a nightclub..NO NO.

Summer of '77 30th September 2017 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustardcharlie (Post 770802)
I was a single dad for 10 years. I have been called a paedo, a homo, and various other names which would only get blanked out on here. I am not Ben Stokes' size, a mere 6'2" and 15 st, I have reacted in similar fashion when I have seen women being assaulted in the street and been arrested for it. If that bores you Summer 77, why bother to comment?

This thread is about Ben Stokes, not the MCC. Other than the obvious ie not going out half way through a series on the razz at 2.30 am, being a well known sporting personality, have you got any reason to object to his actions?

From what I have heard, I would have done exactly the same.


You sought to 'invite people to put their thoughts here' and I did. I'm a county cricketer supporter. The County Championship has, despite increasingly difficult circumstances, delivered a season - and a final week - of copious drama and many stories. These should have been the headlines this week as we look to grow and promote our game. Instead, all has been overshadowed by something as tedious as a punch up outside a disco. Apologies if I find that extremely frustrating.

Summer of '77 30th September 2017 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustardcharlie (Post 770803)
Put it on the County Championship thread. I can't see its relevance here. How on earth does this concern Ben Stokes?

What better place to vent my feelings about the effect of the Stokes incident than a thread which has been specifically set up to discuss the Stokes incident ?

sanskritsimon 30th September 2017 11:04

So is it really true that Middlesex have been relegated as a result of having points docked for timewasting while the umpires fannied around in fear of some man-dolly conventioneers? Stokes would surely have pierced the lot of them on one shaft. Pardon me for taking my eye off the ball, as it were, but both of my teams were in division two this year.

Ali TT 30th September 2017 11:39

Michael Vaughan has waded in with an article in the Telegraph. Can't read it all, as it's a premium article and, tbh, the revelation that Vaughan's punditry is considered by some as "premium" might be the most shocking aspect of this whole tale.

Corbo 61 30th September 2017 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ali TT (Post 770827)
Michael Vaughan has waded in with an article in the Telegraph. Can't read it all, as it's a premium article and, tbh, the revelation that Vaughan's punditry is considered by some as "premium" might be the most shocking aspect of this whole tale.

:D Telegraph is annoying with their premium stuff. Times also. I just get a free copy when spending 10 at waitrose.

D/L 30th September 2017 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustardcharlie (Post 770802)
...Other than the obvious ie not going out half way through a series on the razz at 2.30 am, being a well known sporting personality, have you got any reason to object to his actions?

From what I have heard, I would have done exactly the same.

If one has only heard about it, including or not the rumours about others involved in the fracas, that may be understandable.

Seeing the video, though, would convince most that the actions were very objectionable.

luckyluke 30th September 2017 13:47

Why though? The video showed me pretty much what I expected to see from the descriptions that I'd read previously. I'm guessing that you and others are actually quite shocked at what such a fracas actually looks like.

billyguntheballs 30th September 2017 15:32

Its simple relaly. He should be investigated properly, punished accordingly, both legally and within the ocnfines of English cricket.
I think he needs a personal rehabilitation from alcohol and considerable time/suspension from the game.

D/L 30th September 2017 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by D/L (Post 770832)
If one has only heard about it, including or not the rumours about others involved in the fracas, that may be understandable.

Seeing the video, though, would convince most that the actions were very objectionable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckyluke (Post 770842)
Why though? The video showed me pretty much what I expected to see from the descriptions that I'd read previously. I'm guessing that you and others are actually quite shocked at what such a fracas actually looks like.

There is the possibility, I suppose, that not all have been so well informed by descriptions of the incident that seeing the video added nothing to the understanding.

paulsre 30th September 2017 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustardcharlie (Post 770783)
I invite people to put their thoughts here.

When I heard that Benjamin Andrew Stokes, Lion of England, had been in the very fight of his life on the dark and dangerous backstreets of Bristol, I wept.

I wept and I wept and I wept.

I wept tears of sadness.

I wept tears of anger.

I wept tears of joy.

Sadness that our great country has come to this.

Anger that Ben should have a peaceful evening out destroyed by a sub-mental hideous lowlife.

And joy that our Ben rose to the challenge.

For rise indeed he did. Armed only with his fists, he fought and he fought and he fought. He fought like an England Lion.

And with each punch he landed a blow for all of us who long for a return to simpler, saner times.

Obviously, though, the ECB must act.

While his spineless weasal of an attacker hides away anonymously in a corner, Ben must be allowed to exercise his right to demand satisfaction!

Thus a pistol duel must be held between Ben and his attacker on the Lord's ground, at 7am next Tuesday.

Breakfast will be served to MCC members from 8am. General admission tickets from 40.

I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In England's green & pleasant land.

AJ101 30th September 2017 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsre (Post 770863)
Thus a pistol duel must be held between Ben and his attacker on the Lord's ground, at 7am next Tuesday.

Breakfast will be served to MCC members from 8am. General admission tickets from 40.

Surely it should be with crossbows at the Oval?

square leg umpire 1st October 2017 13:31

funny thing is if this had happened to anybody else it would be a short paragraph on the inside page of the local paper.

Ali TT 1st October 2017 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by square leg umpire (Post 770882)
funny thing is if this had happened to anybody else it would be a short paragraph on the inside page of the local paper.

True, typical obsession with the TMG counties, although I reckon Strauss and Fraser might be working behind the scenes to save their county from the drop.

square leg umpire 2nd October 2017 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ali TT (Post 770883)
True, typical obsession with the TMG counties, although I reckon Strauss and Fraser might be working behind the scenes to save their county from the drop.

what's that got to do with it?

stevieh 4th October 2017 16:55

The case against Stokes must hinge on witnesses coming forward and on the hospitalized assaultee pressing charges, one would suggest. In the absence of those, I don't really see how the prosecutor can leave the matter in limbo for weeks on end. The longer the matter takes for charges to be laid, the less likely further criminal action in other words.

One assumes Stokes is not denying he got into the brawl, and his hand injury won't mend overnight, but there seems to be enough doubt about the facts of the matter that, surely, the police and the courts have more pressing matters to deal with.

Summer of '77 4th October 2017 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieh (Post 771069)
The case against Stokes must hinge on witnesses coming forward and on the hospitalized assaultee pressing charges, one would suggest. In the absence of those, I don't really see how the prosecutor can leave the matter in limbo for weeks on end. The longer the matter takes for charges to be laid, the less likely further criminal action in other words.

One assumes Stokes is not denying he got into the brawl, and his hand injury won't mend overnight, but there seems to be enough doubt about the facts of the matter that, surely, the police and the courts have more pressing matters to deal with.

When Beefy ran in trouble over his alleged ABH assault in the winter of 1980, his solicitor managed to have the Crown Court trial deferred until after England's impending tour of West Indies, which Botham was captaining. He had already appeared at Magistrate's Court by then, with his footballing teammate Joe Neenan electing to plead guilty and cop a small fine rather than risk the cost of a Crown Court trial. I guess the difference here is that the Mbargo case hasn't got that far and, also, there was no horribly inflammatory footage of the Botham incident. But, it might be a precedent worth pursuing by Team Stokes?

Botham, of course, was acquitted of assaulting sailor Steven Isbister. A few weeks ago, I was sorting out some of my old school folders and found a file upon which I'd scrawled stuff like 'Super Kent', 'Deadly Bites Yer Bails' and also 'Isbister Deserved It'. Glad to say I'm rather more prone to soberly considering all the evidence these days.

Sir Coolerking 4th October 2017 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieh (Post 771069)
The case against Stokes must hinge on witnesses coming forward and on the hospitalized assaultee pressing charges, one would suggest. In the absence of those, I don't really see how the prosecutor can leave the matter in limbo for weeks on end. The longer the matter takes for charges to be laid, the less likely further criminal action in other words.

I'd be very surprised if that happens given how he may have to admit to allegedly dishing out homophobic abuse and attacking someone with a bottle.

"Isbister Deserved It" has to be one of the most random school scribbles ever.

D/L 4th October 2017 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieh (Post 771069)
The case against Stokes must hinge on witnesses coming forward and on the hospitalized assaultee pressing charges, one would suggest. In the absence of those, I don't really see how the prosecutor can leave the matter in limbo for weeks on end. The longer the matter takes for charges to be laid, the less likely further criminal action in other words.

One assumes Stokes is not denying he got into the brawl, and his hand injury won't mend overnight, but there seems to be enough doubt about the facts of the matter that, surely, the police and the courts have more pressing matters to deal with.

If the evidence is thought to be strong enough, charges may be brought anyway.

The wheels of justice can grind exceedingly slowly and Stokes' case may not get any special priority.

D/L 4th October 2017 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Coolerking (Post 771072)
I'd be very surprised if that happens given how he may have to admit to allegedly dishing out homophobic abuse and attacking someone with a bottle. ...

Do we know that there is any truth in those abuse rumours? Any road up, I'd be surprised if anything put forward in mitigation was found to outweigh the video evidence.

stevieh 4th October 2017 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by D/L (Post 771080)
Do we know that there is any truth in those abuse rumours? Any road up, I'd be surprised if anything put forward in mitigation was found to outweigh the video evidence.

If the video evidence were so overwhelming and conclusive there would be no reason to delay the laying of charges.

The mitigation, such as it may be, would only factor in during the hearing otherwise the police would be pre-judging the matter rather than applying the law.

cabinboy 4th October 2017 23:15

It’s all about intent and that’s what the video footage doesn’t show.

D/L 5th October 2017 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by D/L (Post 771080)
Do we know that there is any truth in those abuse rumours? Any road up, I'd be surprised if anything put forward in mitigation was found to outweigh the video evidence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieh (Post 771086)
If the video evidence were so overwhelming and conclusive there would be no reason to delay the laying of charges. ...

Not necessarily. A high profile individual will be getting a lot more legal (and other types of) support than your average alleged perpetrator, all of which may well delay the laying of charges.


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