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-   -   South Africa v England 2nd Test, Cape Town Jan 2-6 (http://www.cricket247.org/community/showthread.php?t=20407)

Rey 1st January 2016 20:56

South Africa v England 2nd Test, Cape Town Jan 2-6
 
The 2nd Test starts tomorrow morning, at the slightly later time of 8.30am. Only two days is an incredibly short turnaround between Tests, all the worse for the South Africans after what was a big loss. A lot has been talked about their excellent record at Newlands, but this is not a confident team, whilst England's star is on the rise.

England (probable) 1 Alastair Cook (capt), 2 Alex Hales, 3 Nick Compton, 4 Joe Root, 5 James Taylor, 6 Ben Stokes, 7 Jonny Bairstow (wk), 8 Moeen Ali, 9 Stuart Broad, 10 Steven Finn, 11 James Anderson/Chris Woakes

South Africa (probable) 1 Stiaan van Zyl, 2 Dean Elgar, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 AB de Villiers, 5 Faf du Plessis, 6 Temba Bavuma, 7 Quinton de Kock (wk), 8 Kyle Abbott/Chris Morris, 9 Dane Piedt, 10 Morne Morkel, 11 Kagiso Rabada

Goochies Lovechild 1st January 2016 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey (Post 697480)
The 2nd Test starts tomorrow morning, at the slightly later time of 8.30am. Only two days is an incredibly short turnaround between Tests, all the worse for the South Africans after what was a big loss. A lot has been talked about their excellent record at Newlands, but this is not a confident team, whilst England's star is on the rise.

England (probable) 1 Alastair Cook (capt), 2 Alex Hales, 3 Nick Compton, 4 Joe Root, 5 James Taylor, 6 Ben Stokes, 7 Jonny Bairstow (wk), 8 Moeen Ali, 9 Stuart Broad, 10 Steven Finn, 11 James Anderson/Chris Woakes

South Africa (probable) 1 Stiaan van Zyl, 2 Dean Elgar, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 AB de Villiers, 5 Faf du Plessis, 6 Temba Bavuma, 7 Quinton de Kock (wk), 8 Kyle Abbott/Chris Morris, 9 Dane Piedt, 10 Morne Morkel, 11 Kagiso Rabada

I would probably have Dumbum in ahead of Bavuma who looked all at sea in the first test

I would also have Q de Q opening and VZ at 7

Goochies Lovechild 1st January 2016 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goochies Lovechild (Post 697484)
I would probably have Dumbum in ahead of Bavuma who looked all at sea in the first test

I would also like Compo opening Taylor 3 and Hales at 7...I dont feel good with him opening but I think he deserves a run in the side without being subjected this early in his career to the international new ball

blackeyedangles 1st January 2016 21:47

Unless this test sees a sparkling return to form of an SA middle-order batsman like Faf or Amla, I can't see how they can win it. England's seam and even spin look stronger with no Steyn, they bat deeper and they've got more players in form...

Just for fun, some absolutely baseless predictions:

Debut test hundred for Taylor
Five-fors for Finn and Piedt, the latter far more expensive
Hales to make 30 and next to nothing again
Cook and Root and Amla and Faf all to fail again
At least two run-outs in the match

:D I'll gloat ridiculously if any of these happen

Goochies Lovechild 1st January 2016 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackeyedangles (Post 697487)
Unless this test sees a sparkling return to form of an SA middle-order batsman like Faf or Amla, I can't see how they can win it. England's seam and even spin look stronger with no Steyn, they bat deeper and they've got more players in form...

Just for fun, some absolutely baseless predictions:

Debut test hundred for Taylor
Five-fors for Finn and Piedt, the latter far more expensive
Hales to make 30 and next to nothing again
Cook and Root and Amla and Faf all to fail again
At least two run-outs in the match

:D I'll gloat ridiculously if any of these happen

lol....Faf and AB are a disaster in the running stakes
I like Finn - he can go about a bit but he takes wickets
Hales - Yes I agree
Taylor - I hope so
Cook and Root, dont forget Root averaged nearly 50 in the first test, un-noticed (especially by Botham lol) by most but Cookie is class and he will have his day

Psyduck 1st January 2016 22:02

Crushing victory for England in the first test, the South Africans haven't won in seven tests and appear in total disarray and a two day turnaround between tests. The tourists have all the momentum so the smart money will be on a home win at Fortress Newlands.

Goochies Lovechild 1st January 2016 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyduck (Post 697491)
Crushing victory for England in the first test, the South Africans haven't won in seven tests and appear in total disarray and a two day turnaround between tests. The tourists have all the momentum so the smart money will be on a home win at Fortress Newlands.

I will take your money.....

Admitted England has issues with winning two tests in a row but without Steyn they are in serious trouble - I can only see a poor batting display losing this test

Michelle Fivefer 1st January 2016 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goochies Lovechild (Post 697492)
I will take your money.....

Admitted England has issues with winning two tests in a row but without Steyn they are in serious trouble - I can only see a poor batting display losing this test

Expect low scores from Compton after being damned with such faint praise by Bayliss. The man was a favourite for Man of the Match and practically all the pundits agree that he played very important knocks at Durban. Just the time then for the coach to come out and say he's 'ultimately' looking for a more attacking no.3. Personally I think a consistent opening partner for Cook is a more pressing need. Let's hope Hales manages to fulfil it. I thought the point of Hales was that he was going to be a more attacking foil for Cook's steadier pace?

Michelle Fivefer 1st January 2016 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goochies Lovechild (Post 697485)
I would also like Compo opening Taylor 3 and Hales at 7...I dont feel good with him opening but I think he deserves a run in the side without being subjected this early in his career to the international new ball

If Hales doesn't open there's no reason to pick him at all. It's only the inability to find a decent partner for Cook that brought Hales into the frame at all.

Goochies Lovechild 1st January 2016 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer (Post 697496)
Expect low scores from Compton after being damned with such faint praise by Bayliss. The man was a favourite for Man of the Match and practically all the pundits agree that he played very important knocks at Durban.

Why expect low scores - He batted well at Durban - Typical hype to build somone up only to knock them down - I would have voted for him a MOM had Elgar not batted so well

What is peoples problem with Compton - Ok he is a Sud and went to school with Hashim but he has a solid defense in a Trott mode and is a great slip in at three against Bell who dragged his career out and really became embarasing at the end

Im not sure what pundits you are referring to but if its the sky lot then they should stick to keeping quiet and reading some of the written press opinions - Dont get me off on Botham....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer (Post 697496)
Just the time then for the coach to come out and say he's 'ultimately' looking for a more attacking no.3.

I have not heard this - Please link me to this comment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer (Post 697496)
I think a consistent opening partner for Cook is a more pressing need. Let's hope Hales manages to fulfil it. I thought the point of Hales was that he was going to be a more attacking foil for Cook's steadier pace?

I think you must have missed my post on Hales - Just in case it is below

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goochies Lovechild (Post 697483)
No - I take your point but unless he can get to Warner status he will not succeed

Dont get me wrong I would love him to be "our" Warner but I fear the pressure will make him revert into a style of player he is not...


Goochies Lovechild 1st January 2016 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer (Post 697497)
If Hales doesn't open there's no reason to pick him at all. It's only the inability to find a decent partner for Cook that brought Hales into the frame at all.

I agree but he HAS been selected so he deserves a chance

I doubt even his mother thinks he will come straight in to open for england

Unless i am misken Warner did not initially open for the Aussies

Running behind the times again - Continual knee jerk reactions are not going to fix the problem

Who would you have open in Hales ' absence ?

Michelle Fivefer 1st January 2016 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goochies Lovechild (Post 697499)
I agree but he HAS been selected so he deserves a chance

I doubt even his mother thinks he will come straight in to open for england

Unless i am misken Warner did not initially open for the Aussies

Running behind the times again - Continual knee jerk reactions are not going to fix the problem

Who would you have open in Hales ' absence ?

Well yes, he does deserve a chance, and I have said so elsewhere, although if left to me I'd never have picked him in the first place. His ODI record is still mediocre despite that recent century. But you are advocating moving him down the order. He was picked to open after some success opening for Notts last season and now he's in the team he must be given the series.

I would never have dropped Compton in 2013. Could have saved two and a bit years of futile faffing about. If they felt the need to leave him out after his dismal home NZ series they could have given him another chance in the Ashes. So far it seems he performs better overseas. :cheesy:

Michelle Fivefer 1st January 2016 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goochies Lovechild (Post 697498)
Why expect low scores - He batted well at Durban - Typical hype to build somone up only to knock them down - I would have voted for him a MOM had Elgar not batted so well

What is peoples problem with Compton - Ok he is a Sud and went to school with Hashim but he has a solid defense in a Trott mode and is a great slip in at three against Bell who dragged his career out and really became embarasing at the end

Im not sure what pundits you are referring to but if its the sky lot then they should stick to keeping quiet and reading some of the written press opinions - Dont get me off on Botham....

I have not heard this - Please link me to this comment.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-af...ry/956991.html

I think you've misunderstood the tone of my post. I am a big Compton fan. Expecting low scores is a tongue in cheek comment given the faint praise given him by Trevor Bayliss. Perhaps faint praise is not the right expression, but in the interview he seems more interested in what is wrong with having Compton at #3 than what he can bring to the team. Remember, Bayliss is more of a one-day coach. He is very excited by the young England batsmen who have brought positive, aggressive batting into the game, particularly in the one-day formats. It isn't necessarily the right approach in test cricket though. But we have positive batsmen down the order. They don't all have to bat in the same way.

It was the pundits on both Sky and TMS who mostly agreed that Compton's approach paid off and was a big help to England. Once again I mustn't have made myself clear. It was disappointing that Bayliss has cast doubt on his suitability as a no. 3 after one match, and one match in which his method of batting was exactly what was required. It may not work another time, but that would be the time to mention it, not now.

I don't think fans have a problem with Compton at all. Not in the big wide fan world. It might just be on this board.

Goochies Lovechild 1st January 2016 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer (Post 697500)
Well yes, he does deserve a chance, and I have said so elsewhere, although if left to me I'd never have picked him in the first place. His ODI record is still mediocre despite that recent century. But you are advocating moving him down the order. He was picked to open after some success opening for Notts last season and now he's in the team he must be given the series.

I would never have dropped Compton in 2013. Could have saved two and a bit years of futile faffing about. If they felt the need to leave him out after his dismal home NZ series they could have given him another chance in the Ashes. So far it seems he performs better overseas. :cheesy:

Michelle (is that your real name)

I totally agree Dropping Compton in the first place was a terrible piece of leadership - As I said before another knee jerk decision - Yes he had a run of low scores but did you see his interview with i think Wardy when he clearly said he was well ****ed with being dropped when aveaging 40 odd in test cricket - I think his stats were wrong but I seriously get his point

I dont think AH should open the batting - he is not a test opener Fact but he is in the squad and dropping down the order will give him the opportunity to at least get into the side - get the feel and progress to opener with confidence of selection behind him

Thats all

Goochies Lovechild 1st January 2016 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer (Post 697502)
http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-af...ry/956991.html

I think you've misunderstood the tone of my post. I am a big Compton fan. Expecting low scores is a tongue in cheek comment given the faint praise given him by Trevor Bayliss. Perhaps faint praise is not the right expression, but in the interview he seems more interested in what is wrong with having Compton at #3 than what he can bring to the team. Remember, Bayliss is more of a one-day coach. He is very excited by the young England batsmen who have brought positive, aggressive batting into the game, particularly in the one-day formats. It isn't necessarily the right approach in test cricket though. But we have positive batsmen down the order. They don't all have to bat in the same way.

It was the pundits on both Sky and TMS who mostly agreed that Compton's approach paid off and was a big help to England. Once again I mustn't have made myself clear. It was disappointing that Bayliss has cast doubt on his suitability as a no. 3 after one match, and one match in which his method of batting was exactly what was required. It may not work another time, but that would be the time to mention it, not now.

I don't think fans have a problem with Compton at all. Not in the big wide fan world. It might just be on this board.

HaHa - I did childishly try to provoke you with the Bell Jibe - Well done for ignoring it - Ian Bell was a great servant to English cricket....I expect I reacted more aggresivly to your tounge in cheek remark than you did to mine and for that i thank you:good:

I am supprised at the comments printed by cricinfo allegedly made by Bayliss - This is a Fking test team - Seriously two of your top three need to be grinders - lose one on a green top you need to be able to re-group - In fact having re read the report I think GD has added this without quotation - I am slight biased as I hate cric info due to thier biased reporting and pubishing of comments

For now...

Michelle Fivefer 2nd January 2016 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goochies Lovechild (Post 697503)
Michelle (is that your real name)

I totally agree Dropping Compton in the first place was a terrible piece of leadership - As I said before another knee jerk decision - Yes he had a run of low scores but did you see his interview with i think Wardy when he clearly said he was well ****ed with being dropped when aveaging 40 odd in test cricket - I think his stats were wrong but I seriously get his point

I dont think AH should open the batting - he is not a test opener Fact but he is in the squad and dropping down the order will give him the opportunity to at least get into the side - get the feel and progress to opener with confidence of selection behind him

Thats all

Is Michelle my real name? What do you think? ;) I am female though.

Compton was being selective with his stats. His average after 4 tests in India and three in New Zealand was 40. His disappointing performance v NZ in the home leg brought it down to 36.05 overall. But seven decent tests followed by two rubbish ones. A bit drastic to draw the line under him so firmly, but there were other factors, the Yorkshire lobby rooting for Root, the mysterious goings on within the team and with Flower, etc.

Still don't agree with moving Hales down the order. He's opened quite a bit for England in the other formats and been opening for Notts. Just give him a few more matches.

Michelle Fivefer 2nd January 2016 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goochies Lovechild (Post 697505)
HaHa - I did childishly try to provoke you with the Bell Jibe - Well done for ignoring it - Ian Bell was a great servant to English cricket....I expect I reacted more aggresivly to your tounge in cheek remark than you did to mine and for that i thank you:good:

I am supprised at the comments printed by cricinfo allegedly made by Bayliss - This is a Fking test team - Seriously two of your top three need to be grinders - lose one on a green top you need to be able to re-group - In fact having re read the report I think GD has added this without quotation - I am slight biased as I hate cric info due to thier biased reporting and pubishing of comments

For now...

Not just you. :cheesy: Now that Bell has been dropped I have nothing more to say about him on here and will not be provoked. If he never plays for England again I hope he eventually gets a more balanced appraisal.

I tend to share your scepticism about Cricinfo, but not sure that Dobell would be putting words in Bayliss's mouth that he didn't say.

Goochies Lovechild 2nd January 2016 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer (Post 697507)
Is Michelle my real name? What do you think? ;) I am female though.

Compton was being selective with his stats. His average after 4 tests in India and three in New Zealand was 40. His disappointing performance v NZ in the home leg brought it down to 36.05 overall. But seven decent tests followed by two rubbish ones. A bit drastic to draw the line under him so firmly, but there were other factors, the Yorkshire lobby rooting for Root, the mysterious goings on within the team and with Flower, etc.

Still don't agree with moving Hales down the order. He's opened quite a bit for England in the other formats and been opening for Notts. Just give him a few more matches.

Glenda

We are agreed on Compton

Surely you must see that the difference between ODi T20 and tests is huge

The players who have failed to make it in the test arena has already been outlined where they "made it" in ODi or T20

I disagree - Warner started off on the middle order and when he was ready progressed to the top - Hales is our ideal replica - lets not waste him - Introduce him to the side then move him up...Why do "we" have to rush and then **** up everything

Just my opinion Wendy

Goochies Lovechild 2nd January 2016 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer (Post 697508)
Not just you. :cheesy: Now that Bell has been dropped I have nothing more to say about him on here and will not be provoked. If he never plays for England again I hope he eventually gets a more balanced appraisal.

I tend to share your scepticism about Cricinfo, but not sure that Dobell would be putting words in Bayliss's mouth that he didn't say.

Julia

I would love to see the "interview" because I would be deverstated to hear a coach as Bayliss come out with such ******* No its not that word its Rubbish...

Good Evening

Michelle Fivefer 2nd January 2016 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goochies Lovechild (Post 697510)
Julia

I would love to see the "interview" because I would be deverstated to hear a coach as Bayliss come out with such ******* No its not that word its Rubbish...

Good Evening

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cri...top-three.html

Looks as if the interview was actually a press conference. Scyld Berry's Telegraph piece echoes what Dobell says Bayliss said practically word for word.


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