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1000yardstare 4th March 2009 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieh (Post 293540)
That is because when the quick bowler strains to get the extra couple of mph on a particular delivery, it is likely that he will overstretch in the delivery stride and stray beyond the crease.

What about spin bowlers who have no balls?

stevieh 4th March 2009 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare (Post 293542)
What about spin bowlers who have no balls?

It is hard to defend the spinner no-balling, but I suppose that it would again be, most often, when trying for the quicker one that the spin bowler would also overstretch. Hinds bowled a few no-balls in Antigua, didn't he?

Michelle Fivefer 4th March 2009 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare (Post 293542)
What about spin bowlers who have no balls?

Time they got some.

Michelle Fivefer 4th March 2009 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieh (Post 293540)
That is because when the quick bowler strains to get the extra couple of mph on a particular delivery, it is likely that he will overstretch in the delivery stride and stray beyond the crease.

I can see the reasoning but he should have learned not to do that. Getting that extra couple of mph might give him the wicket and if he sends down a no-ball it's a waste of that effort.

1000yardstare 16th March 2009 23:34

Update on young bowlers 27 and under

1 Test - 7 wickets at 14.57 econ 4.74 s/r 18.1 - Onions (26)
11 Tests - 51 wickets at 23.13 econ 3.03 s/r 45.70 - Asif (26)
33 Tests - 170 wickets at 23.70 econ 3.62 s/r 39.2 - Steyn (25)
6 Tests - 19 wickets at 25.26 econ 3.69 s/r 41.00 - Zondeki (26)
7 Tests - 29 wickets at 27.65 econ 2.57 s/r 64.3 - Siddle (24)
21 Tests - 94 wickets at 28.01 econ 2.97 s/r 56.5 - Johnson (27)
3 Tests - 13 wickets at 29.69 econ 2.69 s/r 66.0 - Tremlett (27)
18 Tests - 76 wickets at 31.34 econ 3.54 s/r 53.0 - Gul (24)
14 Tests - 50 wickets at 31.46 econ 3.28 s/r 57.4 - Sreesanth (26)
17 Tests - 51 wickets at 31.76 econ 3.15 s/r 60.3 - Sharma (20)
29 Tests - 100 wickets at 32.26 econ 3.28 s/r 58.8 - Pathan (24)
28 Tests - 91 wickets at 33.80 econ 3.86 s/r 52.4 - Malinga (25)
26 Tests - 79 wickets at 34.29 econ 3.53 s/r 58.2 - Taylor (24)
17 Tests - 55 wickets at 34.90 econ 3.71 s/r 56.3 - Morkel (24)
36 Tests - 119 wickets at 35.42 econ 3.48 s/r 60.9 - Anderson (26)
11 Tests - 33 wickets at 36.00 econ 3.14 s/r 68.7 - Patel (25)
8 Tests - 20 wickets at 38.10 econ 4.04 s/r 56.5 - Mahmood (27)
16 Tests - 43 wickets at 38.67 econ 3.18 s/r 72.90 - Broad (22)
42 Tests - 121 wickets at 38.82 econ 3.96 s/r 58.7 - Edwards (27)
13 Tests - 40 wickets at 39.10 econ 4.02 s/r 58.2 - RP Singh (23)
9 Tests - 23 wickets at 39.82 econ 3.57 s/r 66.8 - Plunkett (23)
35 Tests - 78 wickets at 41.19 econ 3.23 s/r 76.2 - Mortaza (25)
4 Tests - 10 wickets at 42.30 econ 3.39 s/r 74.7 - Southee (20)
3 Tests - 7 wickets at 52.28 econ 2.92 s/r 107.1 - Hilfenhaus (26)
3 Tests - 5 wickets at 60.40 econ 4.37 s/r 82.8 - Tait (26)
2 Tests - 5 wickets at 63.20 econ 3.76 s/r 100.8 - Tanvir (24)
1 Test 2 wickets at 65.50 econ 2.97 s/r 132.0 - Bollinger (27)

Older bowlers 28+

22 Tests 90 wickets at 22.96 econ 2.54 s/r 54.0 - Clark (33)
46 Tests 178 wickets at 25.69 econ 3.37 s/r 45.7 - Akhtar (33)
21 Tests 77 wickets at 27.70 econ 2.76 s/r 60.0 - Sidebottom (31)
99 Tests 388 wickets at 28.37 econ 3.23 s/r 52.6 - Ntini (31)
110 Tests 354 wickets at 29.40 econ 2.69 s/r 65.5 - Vaas (35)
67 Tests 248 wickets at 30.50 econ 3.26 s/r 56.0 - Hoggard (32)
16 Tests 48 wickets at 30.66 econ 3.09 s/r 59.4 - O'Brien (32)
76 Tests 310 wickets at 30.81 econ 3.46 s/r 53.3 - Lee (32)
25 Tests 79 wickets at 31.67 econ 3.55 s/r 53.4 - Franklin (28)
61 Tests 221 wickets at 31.78 econ 3.21 s/r 59.3 - Harmison (30)
19 Tests 44 wickets at 33.02 econ 3.00 s/r 65.9 - Mills (30)
47 Tests 153 wickets at 33.91 econ 3.41 s/r 59.6 - Martin (34)
64 Tests 203 wickets at 34.40 econ 3.29 s/r 62.7 - Khan (30)
33 Tests 88 wickets at 34.90 econ 3.59 s/r 58.2 - Fernando (29)
3 Tests 11 wickets at 34.54 econ 4.41 s/r 46.9 - Gillespie (29)
37 Tests 85 wickets at 47.85 econ 3.44 s/r 83.2 - Powell (30)
1 Test 2 wickets at 48.00 econ 3.18 s/r 90.5 - Pattinson (29)
1 Test 1 wicket at 122.00 econ 4.20 s/r 174.0 - Khan (28)

Mr Popodopolous 17th March 2009 00:10

Hmm, that Asif had a promising start going there before he messed it up entirely.

Steyn, Johnson, Broad, Siddle, Sharma and maybe Gul because 76 wickets in 18 is not a bad start, look the hot prospects there, Taylor's a posisble too.

Michelle Fivefer 17th March 2009 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron de Popoodopolous (Post 299060)
Hmm, that Asif had a promising start going there before he messed it up entirely.

Steyn, Johnson, Broad, Siddle, Sharma and maybe Gul because 76 wickets in 18 is not a bad start, look the hot prospects there, Taylor's a posisble too.

If you are going by the stats, a visitor from Mars would surely pick R.P. Singh ahead of Broad from that list, having taken more wickets from fewer tests at a better average and strike rate. You also omit Sreesanth who has done better than either of these with 50 wkts from 14 tests as well as a better strike rate and significantly better average. He was out of action through injury for much of last year but no doubt he will be back.

I don't think there's much doubt that Johnson and Steyn have already made it, never mind being "hot prospects".

Mr Popodopolous 17th March 2009 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countess Ellen Olenska (Post 299067)
If you are going by the stats, a visitor from Mars would surely pick R.P. Singh ahead of Broad from that list, having taken more wickets from fewer tests at a better average and strike rate. You also omit Sreesanth who has done better than either of these with 50 wkts from 14 tests as well as a better strike rate and significantly better average. He was out of action through injury for much of last year but no doubt he will be back.

I don't think there's much doubt that Johnson and Steyn have already made it, never mind being "hot prospects".

Yes I forgot that Sreesanth had missed most of the last year through injury, just wondered why he had played only 14 Tests when he seems to have been around a while. RP Singh also seems to have played less than one would expect, but then he is still only 23. Obviously Johnson and Steyn are now there.

1000yardstare 17th March 2009 01:35

The Indian bowlers haven't played many games because in India they only use two fast bowlers. Over the last two years there hasn't been a settled fast bowing unit and due to form and injuries it keeps changing with Khan, Sharma, Pathan , RP Singh, Sreesanth and Patel. It seems now it is Khan and Sharma with the third bowler being Patel. The others have to wait for injuries or they might get into the ODI team.

In April Steyn will have been playing for 3 years and I would say that he is there for the long term. Johnson has just been playing over a year. Neither have really had any injuries yet.

1000yardstare 29th March 2009 12:05

Chris Gayle - 196 ODIs - a nightmare when he gets going in ODIs and 20/20s

Dismissals - bowled 31.8% caught 48.3% caught behind 4.6% lbw 8.6 stumped 6.6%

7 - Agarkar (20 matches)
7 - Lee (20)
6 - Pollock (21 +1)
6 - Naved-ul-Hasan (12)
5 - Harbhajan (21)
5 - Anderson + 1 20/20 (15 + 2)
5 - Watson (15)
4 - KD Mills (7 + 2)

Naved (2 c/wk and 2 lbw) and Mills (1 of each) have been the most successful.

Anderson has the most bowleds against him with 4 and Lee the most lbws with 3.

Gayle has hit 141 sixes and 844 fours in ODIs and 16 sixes and 23 fours in 20/20s

The most sixes in an innings is 12 by Xavier Marshall v Canada and Gayle is way down the list at no. 20 with 8. Gayle holds the record for 10 sixes in a 20/20 match.

1000yardstare 5th April 2009 22:53

An update on bowlers 27 and under. We have two new bowlers Laughlin and Parnell joining the list.

ODIs
1 ODI - 1 wicket at 13.00 econ 4.33 s/r 18.0 - Siddle (24)
54 ODIs - 84 wickets at 24.79 econ 4.82 s/r 30.8 - Johnson (27)
54 ODIs - 83 wickets at 25.24 econ 4.92 s/r 30.7 - Gul (24)
22 ODIs - 38 wickets at 25.28 econ 5.33 s/r 28.4 - Tait (25)
53 ODIs - 79 wickets at 25.58 econ 4.80 s/r 31.9 - Malinga (25)
91 ODIs - 116 wickets at 25.83 econ 4.74 s/r 32.6 - Maharoof (24)
1 ODIs - 3 wickets at 26.00 econ 5.20 s/r 30.0 - Geeves (26)
28 ODIs - 43 wickets at 26.11 econ 5.16 s/r 30.3 - Steyn (25)
56 ODIs - 84 wickets at 26.26 econ 4.67 s/r 33.6 - Taylor (24)
29 ODIs - 44 wickets at 27.34 econ 4.93 s/r 33.2 - Tanvir (24)
47 ODIs - 70 wickets at 27.48 econ 5.03 s/r 32.7 - Broad (22)
20 ODIs - 31 wickets at 28.83 econ 5.04 s/r 34.3 - Morkel (24)
2 ODIS - 2 wickets at 29.00 econ 4.70 s/r 37.0 - Laughlin (26)
49 ODIs - 60 wickets at 29.48 econ 5.04 s/r 35.0 - Edwards (27)
103 ODIs - 135 wickets at 29.81 econ 4.57 s/r 39.1 - Mortaza (25)
107 ODIs -152 wickets at 29.91 econ 5.25 s/r 34.1 - Pathan (24)
27 ODIs - 40 wickets at 30.32 econ 5.65 s/r 32.1 - Sharma (20)
106 ODIs - 136 wickets at 30.93 econ 4.94 s/r 37.5 - Anderson (26)
4 ODIs - 6 wickets at 31.33 econ 5.22 s/r 36.0 - Parnell (19)
41 ODIs - 59 wickets at 31.45 econ 5.78 s/r 32.6 - Sreesanth (25)
41 ODIs - 46 wickets at 31.82 econ 4.81 s/r 39.6 - Patel (25)
47 ODIs - 60 wickets at 32.25 econ 5.36 s/r 36.0 - RP Singh (23)
31 ODIs - 36 wickets at 33.27 econ 4.67 s/r 42.7 - Asif (26)
27 ODIs - 37 wickets at 34.05 econ 5.85 s/r 34.8 - Plunkett (23)
9 ODI - 12 wickets at 34.91 econ 5.48 s/r 38.10 - Hilfenhaus (26)
21 ODIs - 26 wickets at 35.50 econ 5.39 s/r 39.4 - Southee (20)
31 ODIs - 26 wickets at 36.07 econ 4.96 s/r 43.5 - Rampaul (24)
13 ODIs - 11 wickets at 45.81 econ 5.41 s/r 50.7 - Zondeki (26)

1000yardstare 6th April 2009 21:27

What has happened to Bracken. His career figures ave 23.13 econ 4.42 s/r 31.3

2008 - 18 ODIs 31 wickets at 18.16 econ 3.97 s/r 27.4
2009 - 11 ODIs 12 wickets at 38.58 econ 5.17 s/r 44.7

Minor Maggie 6th April 2009 21:30

Dunno, but it isn't as bad a year as Anderson had in 2008.

1000yardstare 6th April 2009 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minor Maggie (Post 305883)
Dunno, but it isn't as bad a year as Anderson had in 2008.

He must like playing under Strauss - 23.75 compared to KP 158.00 :cheesy:

Minor Maggie 6th April 2009 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare (Post 305891)
He must like playing under Strauss - 23.75 compared to KP 158.00 :cheesy:

Clearly, he is music to Jimmy's ears!

geoff_boycotts_grandmother 6th April 2009 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare (Post 305891)
He must like playing under Strauss - 23.75 compared to KP 158.00 :cheesy:

Yes, either that or he likes playing the West Indies more than he likes playing India:think:

Fatslogger 6th April 2009 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother (Post 305911)
Yes, either that or he likes playing the West Indies more than he likes playing India:think:

Whichever explains away Jimmy's hideously poor performances more readily, I think.

1000yardstare 11th April 2009 01:49

Just keeping an eye on the overs bowled and that is a huge amount that Johnson has bowled and he is still going. When Lee was part of a four man bowling attack he didn't bowl as many overs as he did in 2008, the most being 416 in 2005 when Flintoff also bowled his maximum of 532.2.

2008 Tests/ODIs - 2009 Tests/ODIs

585/130 - Johnson - 190.2/99
580.1/115.4 - Lee - 0/0
474.1/32 - Ntini - 149/37
442.1/92.5 - Steyn - 171/66.4
408.5/132 - Anderson - 129/38
392.3/152.1 - Sharma - 94.2/55.2
377.1/78.2 - Morkel - 115.4/39
361/58 - Clark - 0/0
355/73 - Sidebottom - 59/0
338.5/37 - Martin - 134.1/0
325.2/164.5 - Broad - 131/36
309/86.2 - Khan - 115.3/61
285.5/116.4 - Mills - 24.2/109

Chin Music 11th April 2009 06:50

He's getting a rest now though, I think the Aussies have seen the warning signs given that they've played shed loads of cricket since September.

1000yardstare 13th April 2009 18:56

I was wondering what the new Tiflex ball will do if it swings when new and goes out of shape quickly. In my search I came across Gough talking about bowling.
----------
I started bowling well for Yorkshire in 1993. When Jarvo [ Paul Jarvis] were injured I came into the side in the second half of the season and started reversing then. If you want to reverse-swing it really helps if you can bowl a yorker, and I've always bowled lots of yorkers and slower balls. I've always bowled at the death for Yorkshire too. Most youngsters bowl their overs in the middle of the innings in one-day cricket, but not me.

He is not alone in preferring Readers balls for the purpose: When the Pakistanis toured England, and some old-fashioned courtesy allowed them to select the make of ball if they won the toss of a coin, they wanted Readers too. Dukes don't `go' so much, and they do it later, says Gough. The Australian Kookaburra has reversed well for him too at Melbourne and Sydney [where Gough took a hat-trick] and Adelaide on the last tour. The Kookaburra is also used at all levels in South Africa on their equally hard pitches. When Gough toured the country with England A in 1993-94, he put his new technique into practice in the Test at Port Elizabeth where the wicket were bald and he took seven wickets. A wet and grassy pitch, and lush outfield, are the conditions least likely for reverse-swing. In the Port Elizabeth Test this winter the pitch was too grassy for reversing, insufficiently abrasive.

In Gough's experience Old Trafford is the best ground in England for reverse-swing, not so much because of the actual pitch but because the whole square has been bald in recent seasons: It can `go' as early as the sixth or seventh over. Headingley comes next: About 30 overs old on a dry day. But Gough has done it all over the place at some time or another, from Edgbaston on his one-day international debut for England in 1994 against New Zealand to Canterbury last summer, when he took his 100th ODI wicket in the World Cup match against Kenya and started one ball outside the left-handed Mohammad Sheikh's legs and hit his off stump.

My theory is keep the same side shiny - start with shining it for normal swing and keep that side shiny all the time. How it happens I haven't got a clue, it's just something I'm glad I can do because it gives you the ability to bowl on flat wickets and the higher you go the flatter they are. In one-day cricket especially, if you don't do something with the ball, you'll get slapped, lashed.

Among England bowlers Dean Headley comes second to Gough as a reverse-swinger: he made it go beautifully in the Melbourne and Sydney Tests last winter. Among overseas bowlers, Waqar, Shoaib Akhtar and Glenn McGrath are the leading right-arm exponents. They all have an action which gets a little outswing on a new ball and a lot of reverse-swing with an old one, particularly when delivered with a slightly low arm. Shorter people, and fast arm, are the essentials according to Gough; The quicker you bowl the more it reverses. The former South African swing bowler Fanie de Villiers confirms This: I didn't quite have the pace to reverse it a lot.

As Gough says, a well-grooved yorker helps too, not merely because it spends slightly more time in the air and can therefore swing further. The full-length ball will bring in the lbws, especially on a low pitch, as the batsman pushes half-forward; the yorker will go further and hit those stumps, all the more so if a new batsman has come to the crease. Gough's hat-tricks have usually featured reverse-swinging yorkers. Indeed it is because he and Headley, Waqar and Wasim, can all bowl reverse-swinging yorkers that they stand out as the leading hat-trick takers of modern times. I concentrate all the more now on that first ball at a batter, says Gough. People can tell him it's reversing but he doesn't know how much till he gets out there.

Most bowlers at the highest level who are capable of bowling at 85mph or more are basic outswingers. Most reverse-swingers therefore make the old ball go the other way, ie into right-handers. An exception is Allan Donald, who is more of an inswing new ball bowler and reverses it away. Another, on a lesser plane, was the New Zealand fast bowler Heath Davis when England faced him in 1997-98.

There have been two distinct forms of reverse-swing. One, popular among Australian and West Indian teams in the 1980s, was to dampen one side of the ball with sweat and thereby make it heavier. But this method has gone out of favour. As Gough explains: I don't like the wet theory because it makes the ball soft. The prevailing method now is to allow one side to become roughened up (or make it so) and keep the other side shining, as Gough does.


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