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Old 17th October 2017, 23:00   #21
luckyluke
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Can only agree with the above. Even in those long years when England got caned by the Aussies, I looked forward to the series because for many a time you were watching true greats of the game, be they Border, Waugh S and on to Warne, McGrath and Ponting amongst others.

The last few Ashes series from 2013 home onwards, I have not looked forward to any.
Thatís the thing about all time greats, they make everyone else look a bit rubbish.

Having the 2013, then 2013-14, then 2015 ashes has been a major factor in causing ashes fatigue. No one particularly complained about 2009, 10-11, 2013 (post McGrath Warne & Gilchrist)- itís only since 2015 really that people have expressed problems
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Old 17th October 2017, 23:35   #22
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Call this fatigue?

When I were a lad, there were England v Australia Tests in 1972, 1974/5, 1975, 1976/7, 1977, 1978/9, 1979/80, 1980, 1981 & 1982/3.
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Old 18th October 2017, 00:48   #23
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Call this fatigue?

When I were a lad, there were England v Australia Tests in 1972, 1974/5, 1975, 1976/7, 1977, 1978/9, 1979/80, 1980, 1981 & 1982/3.
You were lucky. When I were a lad we played 14 back to back tests every summer...then our mother and father would kill us etc etc
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Old 18th October 2017, 04:54   #24
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Have generally found in sports, that those making the most noise are usually the first to fold when things get tough. Something about empty vessels. It's the ones with a quiet resolve that usually get it done.

Not always of course, exceptions to every rule. Relevant to the article, always (rightly or wrongly) saw Merv Hughes a bit that way and wondered why he was such a favourite. The output never quite seemed commensurate with the noise and theatrics.
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Old 18th October 2017, 08:55   #25
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You were lucky. When I were a lad we played 14 back to back tests every summer...then our mother and father would kill us etc etc
Ha ha. Funny thing is, I don't remember ever getting bored with England playing the Aussies relentlessly back then. The enthusiasm of youth, I guess.

Different motives too. The 1975 Ashes were a substitute for the banned South Africans, 1976/7 and 1980 were the Centenary Tests, while 1979/80 was the three match non-Ashes series that heralded the reunion of cricket post-WSC. The 21st Century overkill has been seemingly down to nothing but money.
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Old 18th October 2017, 09:00   #26
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Ha ha. Funny thing is, I don't remember ever getting bored with England playing the Aussies relentlessly back then. The enthusiasm of youth, I guess.

Different motives too. The 1975 Ashes were a substitute for the banned South Africans, 1976/7 and 1980 were the Centenary Tests, while 1979/80 was the three match non-Ashes series that heralded the reunion of cricket post-WSC. The 21st Century overkill has been seemingly down to nothing but money.
I think it was to give England a less strenuous lead in to the world cup. Went well in 2015...
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Old 18th October 2017, 09:28   #27
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Ha ha. Funny thing is, I don't remember ever getting bored with England playing the Aussies relentlessly back then. The enthusiasm of youth, I guess.

Different motives too. The 1975 Ashes were a substitute for the banned South Africans, 1976/7 and 1980 were the Centenary Tests, while 1979/80 was the three match non-Ashes series that heralded the reunion of cricket post-WSC. The 21st Century overkill has been seemingly down to nothing but money.
It's got to be remembered that let alone SA, there was no Sri Lanka, Bangladesh let alone Zimbabwe. What perplexes me that next summer we play Pakistan in 2 tests even though they only toured last year and that we haven't played Bangladesh at home since 2010. No rhyme or reason to the fixture list these days unless you are a money man.
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Old 18th October 2017, 12:19   #28
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...-controversial

Speaking of spirit of the game, Salman Butt (remember him!) captain of the WAPDA team in Pakistan is upset after the bowler ran out non-striker Mohammad Irfan who was backing up too far.

I have no sympathy whatsoever with the batting side. If the non-striker is backing up too far, he's stealing ground. Once Kapil Dev sent a batsman on his way after similarly running out a player. Apparently his instructions to the umpire when asked whether or not to withdraw his appeal were simple....."Tell him to **** off!"
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Old 18th October 2017, 12:49   #29
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Ha ha. Funny thing is, I don't remember ever getting bored with England playing the Aussies relentlessly back then. The enthusiasm of youth, I guess.

Different motives too. The 1975 Ashes were a substitute for the banned South Africans, 1976/7 and 1980 were the Centenary Tests, while 1979/80 was the three match non-Ashes series that heralded the reunion of cricket post-WSC. The 21st Century overkill has been seemingly down to nothing but money.
Was going to point out fewer teams back then.

Now we could be playing South Africa (Steyn and de Villiers), trying to go one better than our last series in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka when we could only draw or seeking our first test victory in Zimbabwe, Ireland or Afghanistan.

Why limit ourselves to playing the same opposition again and again?

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http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...-controversial

Speaking of spirit of the game, Salman Butt (remember him!) captain of the WAPDA team in Pakistan is upset after the bowler ran out non-striker Mohammad Irfan who was backing up too far.

I have no sympathy whatsoever with the batting side. If the non-striker is backing up too far, he's stealing ground. Once Kapil Dev sent a batsman on his way after similarly running out a player. Apparently his instructions to the umpire when asked whether or not to withdraw his appeal were simple....."Tell him to **** off!"
Glad you highlighted this breach of the spirit of cricket and glad that the batsman was given out for breaching it.
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Old 18th October 2017, 13:01   #30
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Was going to point out fewer teams back then.
But still unusual to play Australia 10 times in eleven years. That level of familiarity was matched only in the Victorian era.

As a comparison, in the 25 years from the end of WW2 to 1970/1 inclusive, the two old foes met 13 times.
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Old 18th October 2017, 13:03   #31
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Originally Posted by Chin Music View Post
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...-controversial

Speaking of spirit of the game, Salman Butt (remember him!) captain of the WAPDA team in Pakistan is upset after the bowler ran out non-striker Mohammad Irfan who was backing up too far.

I have no sympathy whatsoever with the batting side. If the non-striker is backing up too far, he's stealing ground. Once Kapil Dev sent a batsman on his way after similarly running out a player. Apparently his instructions to the umpire when asked whether or not to withdraw his appeal were simple....."Tell him to **** off!"
Totally agree and I don't know why these incidents are still considered even remotely controversial.
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Old 18th October 2017, 19:51   #32
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Thatís the thing about all time greats, they make everyone else look a bit rubbish.

Having the 2013, then 2013-14, then 2015 ashes has been a major factor in causing ashes fatigue. No one particularly complained about 2009, 10-11, 2013 (post McGrath Warne & Gilchrist)- itís only since 2015 really that people have expressed problems
Indeed, those back to back Ashes ruined a lot of it for me. Not to mention ruined a few careers too. That said I haven't really kept that much of an eye on the build up and looking forward to actually being able to watch some as I have BT Sport.
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Old 18th October 2017, 20:28   #33
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Glad you highlighted this breach of the spirit of cricket and glad that the batsman was given out for breaching it.
http://www.cricketcountry.com/articl...n-for-it-20735

Here's a link to the Kapil incident I mentioned. What says it all to me is that it says that 'it isn't considered very sportsmanlike, especially among batsmen'. For me it simply indicates that batsmen are an overly protected species who think they can steal runs inordinately.
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Old 18th October 2017, 20:50   #34
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Surely the elusive, fluid spirit of cricket (grasped by players when it suits, ignored at all other times) dictates that a batsman would not leave his / her crease prior to the ball being bowled anyway?

If it was thus applied the whole mankading issue would be irrelevant.
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Old 18th October 2017, 21:26   #35
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http://www.cricketcountry.com/articl...n-for-it-20735

Here's a link to the Kapil incident I mentioned. What says it all to me is that it says that 'it isn't considered very sportsmanlike, especially among batsmen'. For me it simply indicates that batsmen are an overly protected species who think they can steal runs inordinately.
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Old 18th October 2017, 22:14   #36
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Originally Posted by Chin Music View Post
http://www.cricketcountry.com/articl...n-for-it-20735

Here's a link to the Kapil incident I mentioned. What says it all to me is that it says that 'it isn't considered very sportsmanlike, especially among batsmen'. For me it simply indicates that batsmen are an overly protected species who think they can steal runs inordinately.
I've always suspected it dates back deep into the Victorian era as a means of protecting 'absent minded' amateur batsmen from being run out by those graceless professional bowlers. If batters are supposed to be given a warning when transgressing the line, then surely bowlers should be allowed their first no ball to pass without penalty?
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Old 19th October 2017, 11:49   #37
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I've always suspected it dates back deep into the Victorian era as a means of protecting 'absent minded' amateur batsmen from being run out by those graceless professional bowlers. If batters are supposed to be given a warning when transgressing the line, then surely bowlers should be allowed their first no ball to pass without penalty?
It seems to me that these days about 20 no balls pass without penalty and the first time a bowler finds out he's been overstepping is when he takes a wicket!!
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Old 19th October 2017, 11:53   #38
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The "spirit" of something is a very vague concept and rarely ever agreed upon.

Insofar as there can be such a thing in cricket, it can only be fostered by the laws of the game. Any action which doesn't contravene them I'd say was within the "spirit".

Last edited by D/L : 19th October 2017 at 12:09.
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Old 19th October 2017, 12:22   #39
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It seems to me that these days about 20 no balls pass without penalty and the first time a bowler finds out he's been overstepping is when he takes a wicket!!
Yes, another duty that many umpires seem to have abdicated. I also notice a lot of umps taking no notice as to whether the batsmen are making the crease when running twos and threes.
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Old 19th October 2017, 13:19   #40
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The "spirit" of something is a very vague concept and rarely ever agreed upon.

Insofar as there can be such a thing in cricket, it can only be fostered by the laws of the game. Any action which doesn't contravene them I'd say was within the "spirit".
Cricket owes much of its appeal and enjoyment to the fact that it should be played not only according to the Laws, but also within the Spirit of Cricket.

The major responsibility for ensuring fair play rests with the captains, but extends to all players, umpires and, especially in junior cricket, teachers, coaches and parents.

Respect is central to the Spirit of Cricket.

Respect your captain, team-mates, opponents and the authority of the umpires.

Play hard and play fair.

Accept the umpireís decision.

Create a positive atmosphere by your own conduct, and encourage others to do likewise.

Show self-discipline, even when things go against you.

Congratulate the opposition on their successes, and enjoy those of your own team.

Thank the officials and your opposition at the end of the match, whatever the result.

Cricket is an exciting game that encourages leadership, friendship and teamwork, which brings together people from different nationalities, cultures and religions, especially when played within the Spirit of Cricket.
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