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Old 24th November 2017, 12:46   #61
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
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I thought this forum had died?

Anyhoo. Anyone who thought Aus would win this series comfortably probably needs to reassess (I had England favourites after the recall of Paine & Smarsh.) More match-winners, more bowling options, more batting depth. Australias only real advantage is that it's at home & Nathan Lyon. Maybe pace will become more of a deciding factor on quicker surfaces, though I have England winning Adelaide so by then it might be done and dusted. Hopefully it's a real close scrap. I'm still utterly baffled by Australias reasoning behind their selections, and what exactly Maxwell did to warrant being dropped (he's currently on 213* for Victoria.) I'm really struggling to get enthusiastic for this side, though i'm happy for Cummins & Lyon.
It's two flawed sides but a long series and Australia's problems are easier to fix: you're at home so rather than picking from a touring squad, you have better players to come in (Maxwell, Renshaw, Nevil) and you don't have a Director, Cricket panicking at the first sign of a negative headline and banning your best player when the police haven't even charged him with anything.

Moreover, whilst England have the ability to edge in front (see Day One), in the absence of Stokes they don't seem to have the ability to make it decisive. England have arguably won 4 out of 6 sessions yet the match is fairly evenly poised because when Australia won a session (having "lost" the first hour) they won it comprehensively with 6 wickets in little over an hour. Maybe Broad can provide that, maybe a Root or Bairstow can do it with the bat but until then it seems Australia have a significant edge as England can grind ahead for three sessions but Australia's explosiveness can peg them back with an hour's play.

That is though the type of contest that makes test cricket and hopefully will be a better series for being between two mediocre sides rather than a mismatch between a strong side and a mediocre side.
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Old 24th November 2017, 13:12   #62
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Just got back from Florida so not really kept much of an eye on progress, glad to see the board back and running though. Seems very interestingly poised, I was surprised by the Aussies's selection and thought it would give England an even chance. I fear it may come down to Lyon vs Ali with the ball eventually. Depends on how long Smith bats tomorrow really.
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Old 24th November 2017, 13:55   #63
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The collapse is on .......
Was always possible with Ali at 6, Bairstow surprisingly down at 7, then Woakes, Broad, Ball and Anderson completing 8-11.

Not to say any are incapable of scoring runs, or doomed to fail every time or necessarily that often, just it is one vulnerable to collapse.

Backfired a bit putting Bairstow at 7, had he been batting 6 or even 5 where I'd put him if he's likely to be keeping any length of time, and Ali seems happy enough and no less likely to score runs at 7, he might have played a bit more of a proper innings instead of trying to create runs.



Anyway, looks like England have an edge, bigger until the aussie innings recovered, but they haven't got much batting left in the locker. Certainly could provide an interesting conclusion to this Test
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Old 24th November 2017, 13:58   #64
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Didn't show it today, though, the last 6 wickets falling for 56.
It is a reputation they've gained whether fully deserved or just folklore.

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Conversely, the three chaps believed to be the weak links in the batting contributed over 63% of the total score.
Yeah, the weak links did outdo their supposed 'superiors' but then again every dog has his day, and three can have them on the same day!

Did well, but you have to wonder if better batsmen might have done even better........... (not that England have any 'better batsmen' to bring in or surely they would have)
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Old 24th November 2017, 14:50   #65
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Quite possible but conjecture right now. England have the better late batting order.
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Didn't show it today, though, the last 6 wickets falling for 56.
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It is a reputation they've gained whether fully deserved or just folklore.
It most certainly is justified. However, most pundits appear not to have considered the fact that Ball for Stokes weakens the middle order significantly. As it stands I would argue there isn't much in it between the two teams in terms of lower order (8-11) batting. The problem is England don't have anybody who is particularly good at bowling at the tail, whereas Starc is excellent in this regard.
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Old 24th November 2017, 15:45   #66
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It most certainly is justified. However, most pundits appear not to have considered the fact that Ball for Stokes weakens the middle order significantly. As it stands I would argue there isn't much in it between the two teams in terms of lower order (8-11) batting. The problem is England don't have anybody who is particularly good at bowling at the tail, whereas Starc is excellent in this regard.
Australia have a better 8-11.

Woakes is better than Starc but after that England fold quickly. Cummins is a far better batsman than Broad these days, Hazlewood will hang around longer than Ball and Lyon is better than Anderson (interestingly Anderson now has the same fc as test batting average).

By ruling Stokes out England have turned a strength into a weakness.
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Old 24th November 2017, 22:18   #67
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Australia have a better 8-11.

Woakes is better than Starc but after that England fold quickly. Cummins is a far better batsman than Broad these days, Hazlewood will hang around longer than Ball and Lyon is better than Anderson (interestingly Anderson now has the same fc as test batting average).

By ruling Stokes out England have turned a strength into a weakness.
I'd agree - technically and as an all round performer with the bat. But Starc can be dangerous if he gets a sighter. Averages over 29 in Aus, with 4 fifties and a strike rate brisker than Warner's. If Smudger and Swampy get the hosts to within striking distance of England's total, I do fear Starc if he's given a licence.

Very enjoyable two days so far, even if I'm having to watch the action via BT Sport's inadequate on-line highlights package, augmented with scraps from YouTube.
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Old 25th November 2017, 00:34   #68
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What England would give for a Steve Harmison right now to shake up the Aussie batsmen with some wayward extreme pace.

Broad and Anderson are bowling the right areas but they aren't scary at all like Harmy .
Ha ha. Harmison was certainly scary in 2006/7 but the people he scared were his team-mates and England fans. Or is that what your "wayward extreme pace" referred to? His record in Australia from 10 matches is 23 wickets at 50 and in the series I referred to, 10 wkts @ 61.40
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Old 25th November 2017, 01:27   #69
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Nobody up? Broad strikes first to dismiss Marsh - Anderson takes the catch.
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Old 25th November 2017, 02:13   #70
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Nobody up? Broad strikes first to dismiss Marsh - Anderson takes the catch.
Had almost given up on the site tbh.

Was forced to mutter elsewhere. Didn't know what was happening. Error403 is not good.

Anyway great to get a wicket. For family reasons, I can't watch live, so am reduced to TMS. Still, brings back memories of youth, listening to the radio in bed.
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Old 25th November 2017, 02:30   #71
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Yes!!!! Paine gone. C'mon Broady. One or two more before lunch.
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Old 25th November 2017, 02:33   #72
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It was me what got it!!! 6 and out for Starc. He,he,he.
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Old 25th November 2017, 02:52   #73
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Good stuff from England to restrict Australia and pick up three wickets. Now with the new ball it’s time to really take advantage of the tail.
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Old 25th November 2017, 04:52   #74
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It sounds like there is something wrong with Jimmy, tuffers suspects moeen isn't quite fit and the still probably injured ball is going at over a run more an over than all other seamers. We really need to clean up the tail now.

I am worried about a third innings collapse.
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Old 25th November 2017, 05:50   #75
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Woakes finally gets a wicket to remove a tailender in Cummins but not before England's lead has been all but wiped out.

They need to get Broad back on.

21 overs, 10 maidens, 3/41, that's great bowling in anyone's language.

Jimmy Anderson not much worse with 29 overs, 10 maidens, 2/51.

You Poms should be proud of these old warhorses.

Root's captaincy has been superb too, he's done his homework with fielding placements with help from a Kiwi in Shane Bond.
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Old 25th November 2017, 06:01   #76
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You need to find a way of getting out Steve Smith though, he's carrying the Aussies.

Get him out and you'll win the Ashes.
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Old 25th November 2017, 06:24   #77
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Woakes finally gets a wicket to remove a tailender in Cummins but not before England's lead has been all but wiped out.

They need to get Broad back on.

21 overs, 10 maidens, 3/41, that's great bowling in anyone's language.

Jimmy Anderson not much worse with 29 overs, 10 maidens, 2/51.

You Poms should be proud of these old warhorses.

Root's captaincy has been superb too, he's done his homework with fielding placements with help from a Kiwi in Shane Bond.
I think all Eng fans are proud of our "old warhorses" but the captaincy ...? I'm all for innovative field placings etc, but the idea of not opening with Broad or Anderson after lunch seems odd if Jimmy has no injury. If he has we are in trouble. Mo is bowling pies, Woakes and Ball innocuous. Great innings from Smith and I can see Oz getting 50 - 100 lead here.
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Old 25th November 2017, 06:52   #78
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I think all Eng fans are proud of our "old warhorses" but the captaincy ...? I'm all for innovative field placings etc, but the idea of not opening with Broad or Anderson after lunch seems odd if Jimmy has no injury. If he has we are in trouble. Mo is bowling pies, Woakes and Ball innocuous. Great innings from Smith and I can see Oz getting 50 - 100 lead here.
This is where you need a genuine quick like Harmison or Devon Malcolm to strike fear into the Aussie tailenders.

They might bowl some terrible wides but they can also bowl some fearsome bouncers that will knock their blocks off.
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Old 25th November 2017, 07:32   #79
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oof - single figures for Chef again

edit: looks like the forum is on BST still
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Old 25th November 2017, 07:35   #80
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Absolutely rubbish from Cook. Schoolboy errors in both innings and a grand total of 9 runs in the match.
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