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Old 26th November 2017, 07:24   #141
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Can't help but think Stokes would have made a huge difference in this game. Surely would have outperformed Ball in all facets of the game.
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Old 26th November 2017, 07:27   #142
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Can't help but think Stokes would have made a huge difference in this game. Surely would have outperformed Ball in all facets of the game.

One can imagine Ball won't play next game. The English attack is lacking venom and he doesn't add much.

Stokes will probably be required to make the series competitive, though Adelaide under lights could offer up myriad possibilities.

Aussie tracks are probably the most flat one encounters anywhere so bowlers with penetration are required.

Stokes is arguably more of a loss in the batting stakes. He would prosper on these benign desks.

Maybe what England really needs though is a spinner to relieve the quicks. Ali is a part-timer by the looks of it but there must be some slow bowler in their ranks who could threaten.

Last edited by Midnight : 26th November 2017 at 07:48.
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Old 26th November 2017, 08:40   #143
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Maybe what England really needs though is a spinner to relieve the quicks. Ali is a part-timer by the looks of it but there must be some slow bowler in their ranks who could threaten.

I wonder what Rashid did (or didn't do) that meant they chose Crane ahead of him?
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Old 26th November 2017, 08:48   #144
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These sides aren’t evenly matched at all.

Ozzie’s are better at batting and bowling.
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Old 26th November 2017, 08:48   #145
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Both teams are fairly evenly matched, a lot closer than England is showing here, been a very meek effort to roll over so easy although i think both teams will have their collapses in this series.
Steve Smith, simply outstanding, his unorthodox style at the crease is becoming one of his best assets, it wasnt long ago that many said hed never make it with a style like that.
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Old 26th November 2017, 08:53   #146
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I wonder what Rashid did (or didn't do) that meant they chose Crane ahead of him?
He's even less able to hold up an end than Ali, England seem completely wed to the idea of their spinner only being there to give the quicks a rest (unless they're playing in the ISC and even then.....).

With that being said from the little I've seen of Crane for Hampshire he's not very likely to be economical either (not exactly surprising for a 20?yo leggie).

Ali definitely didn't seem himself with the ball this match, I didn't expect him to get as much bounce as Lyon but there weren't many revs on the ball and he normally does get a lot of revs even if his consistency isn't good.
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Old 26th November 2017, 08:58   #147
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Old 26th November 2017, 09:02   #148
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Can't help but think Stokes would have made a huge difference in this game. Surely would have outperformed Ball in all facets of the game.
Maybe. Problem is England go in with the same approach and very reliant on a handful of players to perform, ironic this match that the three a lot of us anticipated struggling did better than the supposedly more reliable players.

As often the case though England down under fail to score enough runs, in this Test England had SIX scores of 40+ and no one scored more than 83 with 53 the second highest score. Whilst the aussies have a comparable five within the same bracket, that's for 13 having batted, two not out unlikely to make many more runs if they do carry their bat, and Smith made a big hundred.
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Old 26th November 2017, 09:09   #149
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Interesting contribution figures for England, not a lot of scope to add but not final obviously

Cook/Root/Bairstow : 6 inns, 126 runs @ 21.00 (HS 51)
Woakes/Ball/Ali : 4 wickets @ 72.25

So the batting England come to rely on a lot managed less runs combined than Smith, and the supporting bowling in the (as always gone with) five bowler theory not firing.

Point is you aren't going to win many matches down under if your key batsmen fire blanks, the support bowlers fire blanks, and someone outside of those doesn't step up. Fair enough Vince and Stoneman made over 80 runs apiece, Malan 60 and Ali near 80, but it all didn't add up to more than 500 runs in the Test......

We'll see if it's the same old same old as previous tours England got slaughtered in, too many scores under 300 - this time one just inched over, but 300 is a relatively arbitrary mark used because it is a round hundred.
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Old 26th November 2017, 09:09   #150
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England want any old spinner who can bat because their batsmen can’t be trusted.

Ozzies pick a spinner to take wickets and he gets 5 in the match.

Ozzie’s are 1-0 up. DYOC.
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Old 26th November 2017, 09:23   #151
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England want any old spinner who can bat because their batsmen can’t be trusted.

Ozzies pick a spinner to take wickets and he gets 5 in the match.

Ozzie’s are 1-0 up. DYOC.
Wasn't moeen our standout bowler this summer? I don't think he is fit but he had to play because the selectors are obsessed with picking a leg spinner who isn't very good. The only way we can play a different spinner to moeen is in a four man attack. This could have happened if we had picked leach over crane but the weird obsession prevented it.

Ball was clearly not fit. That spell after lunch yesterday killed us. Broad should have been bowling.
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Old 26th November 2017, 09:48   #152
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Wasn't moeen our standout bowler this summer? I don't think he is fit but he had to play because the selectors are obsessed with picking a leg spinner who isn't very good. The only way we can play a different spinner to moeen is in a four man attack. This could have happened if we had picked leach over crane but the weird obsession prevented it.

Ball was clearly not fit. That spell after lunch yesterday killed us. Broad should have been bowling.
Was he ? Talk me through his contributions with the ball vs Windies.

One snake pit haul doesn’t make a summer - nor help win the Ashes.
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Old 26th November 2017, 09:50   #153
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If we don't have Stokes back, then I suggest we need Bairstow to play as a batsman, in the top 6, and that probably means Foakes keeps. Baistow, arguably one of our two or three best batsmen, is wasted at no. 7.
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Old 26th November 2017, 09:53   #154
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If we don't have Stokes back, then I suggest we need Bairstow to play as a batsman, in the top 6, and that probably means Foakes keeps. Baistow, arguably one of our two or three best batsmen, is wasted at no. 7.
Agree completely with this. Tell Jonny he is a batsman. It worked wonders in OFI.
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Old 26th November 2017, 09:59   #155
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Was he ? Talk me through his contributions with the ball vs Windies.

One snake pit haul doesn’t make a summer - nor help win the Ashes.
Sorry I was basing it on his man of the series display vs our main oppo this summer. As written up below.

And the England man of the series “for his consistency with the ball and devastating effect with the bat”.... you don’t need to ask, do you? There is yet another pose with yet another cheque and yet another interview. Mo looks down a lot and is not fully au fait in team-England chat. What a lovely man!

Root picks up the D’Oliveria trophy - the first time England have beaten South Africa at home for 20 years.
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Old 26th November 2017, 10:04   #156
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Watching Jake Balls innings today gave me a horrible insight into how I would probably fare playing short pitched bowling at test level. Brutal and someone needs to call the mercy rule if he plays again next test.

Lyon, Smith & Cummins the difference between the two sides. A world class spinner and 3rd quick who can pose a constant threat seems to be the qualities Eng lack (especially without Stokes.) England potentially have more match-winners with the bat however. Adelaide will be a close game.
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Old 26th November 2017, 10:06   #157
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Perhaps this series will launch another Schofield report.

England need to break the cycle of doing just enough on helpful home conditions to fool themselves into believing they have a chance away.

We were monstered last winter and again planning has been poor - we entered a tough series with half the team fighting for their places.
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Old 26th November 2017, 10:11   #158
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Sorry I was basing it on his man of the series display vs our main oppo this summer. As written up below.

And the England man of the series “for his consistency with the ball and devastating effect with the bat”.... you don’t need to ask, do you? There is yet another pose with yet another cheque and yet another interview. Mo looks down a lot and is not fully au fait in team-England chat. What a lovely man!

Root picks up the D’Oliveria trophy - the first time England have beaten South Africa at home for 20 years.
“Main oppo” ? Windies put up more fight than the Saffers.

Can only assume he was “injured” during the Windies series too then as they played him with a stick of rhubarb.
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Old 26th November 2017, 10:13   #159
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We don't have a Nathan Lyon we can pick ahead of Moeen. There is no plausible alternative, to suggest otherwise is plainly absurd. Without Stokes, even a crocked Moeen was undroppable for this team. The alternative would be Ballance at 6, three seamers and Mason Crane as sole spinner.

Should England have done better managing their spinners, possibly giving Crane a debut in the summer? Maybe, but they were trying to win those games, not develop a squad for the Ashes.
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Old 26th November 2017, 10:18   #160
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We don't have a Nathan Lyon we can pick ahead of Moeen. There is no plausible alternative, to suggest otherwise is plainly absurd. Without Stokes, even a crocked Moeen was undroppable for this team. The alternative would be Ballance at 6, three seamers and Mason Crane as sole spinner.

Should England have done better managing their spinners, possibly giving Crane a debut in the summer? Maybe, but they were trying to win those games, not develop a squad for the Ashes.
Good selectors will find a way to both win a Test series, and develop players for the fututure.

Why all this focus on Crane? No way does he have the career figures to justify his place in the squad, let alone in the Test team.

If we lose this series, especially if we lose badly (as I fear we may), Bayliss has to go.
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