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Old 26th November 2017, 10:22   #161
Jock McTuffnel v3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
We don't have a Nathan Lyon we can pick ahead of Moeen. There is no plausible alternative, to suggest otherwise is plainly absurd. Without Stokes, even a crocked Moeen was undroppable for this team. The alternative would be Ballance at 6, three seamers and Mason Crane as sole spinner.

Should England have done better managing their spinners, possibly giving Crane a debut in the summer? Maybe, but they were trying to win those games, not develop a squad for the Ashes.
Agree - there is only so much fiddling with the team that can be done now the series is on.

But last winter followed a path where players were drafted in late, some had no form and we based our hopes on players who had performed well but in very helpful conditions. History is repeating itself.

We need Stokes back ASAP if possible.
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Old 26th November 2017, 10:56   #162
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Just read this Tweet. Hoping it is "fake news"...


Quote:
Sky News Australia‏Verified account
@SkyNewsAust
22m22 minutes ago
More
#BREAKING The ECB is investigating reports English batsman Jonny Bairstow headbutted Australian batsman Cameron Bancroft in Perth earlier this month.
9 replies 60 retweets 36 likes
Reply 9 Retweet 60 Like 36 Direct messag
e
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Old 26th November 2017, 11:01   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
We don't have a Nathan Lyon we can pick ahead of Moeen. There is no plausible alternative, to suggest otherwise is plainly absurd. Without Stokes, even a crocked Moeen was undroppable for this team. The alternative would be Ballance at 6, three seamers and Mason Crane as sole spinner.

Should England have done better managing their spinners, possibly giving Crane a debut in the summer? Maybe, but they were trying to win those games, not develop a squad for the Ashes.
Lyon still averages over 35 in first class cricket despite his hundreds of Test wickets at a much better average. His Shield average must be about 40 and there are examples of finger spinners in England who have much better records than that in the Championship but will never, ever get an opportunity to play. If we played someone like Leach or whoever, we may actually get a pleasant surprise if they're accurate over long spells and have the DRS in their favour.

Smith's innings is the crucial factor in this, I'm still trying to work out just why he is so good.
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Old 26th November 2017, 11:06   #164
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Smith's innings is the crucial factor in this, I'm still trying to work out just why he is so good.

Is it because, like Chanderpaul, his technique confuses bowlers?
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Old 26th November 2017, 11:09   #165
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So Jimmy bruised shoulder. Mo not fit and cut finger. Ball not fit. Now this Jonny story.

Smashing.
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Old 26th November 2017, 11:22   #166
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Is it because, like Chanderpaul, his technique confuses bowlers?
Think it must be, plus an incredible eye. I guess the only thing we've been unable to try is left arm spin or seam going away from his bat. He looks too good for everything else.
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Old 26th November 2017, 11:28   #167
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Just read this Tweet. Hoping it is "fake news"...


e
Er that would be game over if he misses games.
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Old 26th November 2017, 11:42   #168
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Nice to see that everyone knows exactly where England went wrong. I think probably though the Aussies are just better at cricket than us at the moment. I'd be amazed if it's not 5--0 now. England have already massively exceeded expectations.

Quote:
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Lyon still averages over 35 in first class cricket despite his hundreds of Test wickets at a much better average. His Shield average must be about 40 and there are examples of finger spinners in England who have much better records than that in the Championship but will never, ever get an opportunity to play. If we played someone like Leach or whoever, we may actually get a pleasant surprise if they're accurate over long spells and have the DRS in their favour.

Smith's innings is the crucial factor in this, I'm still trying to work out just why he is so good.
Regarding the spin bowler: don't be sensible. England's spinner must either be a batsman or any old wrist spinner that the captain doesn't personally dislike. Regarding Smith: yes. In this match he was so good largely because he declined to hand us his wicket on a plate.
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Old 26th November 2017, 12:09   #169
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I don't think anyone is going to be bashing this England team too much. They are what they are and most of us know personnel wise they simply aren't good enough at present. I thought we gave it a fair go in the first innings, but it wasn't quite of the standard required to compete against Australia. Again with the bowling, we gave it a good go but it wasn't good enough. For our second innings we reverted to standard operation and it was well short. Both bowling and batting. If there's any silver lining then its the fact that Australia are capable of real mediocrity themselves.

Biggest concern is without doubt Cooky. He's had poor runs before and recovered. But there's so much pressure on him to score runs consistently and age is starting to work against him. Two absolute failures is not a good start. Hope to be proved wrong but I think his goose may be in the oven.
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Old 26th November 2017, 12:24   #170
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Er that would be game over if he misses games.
He wont. Warner didn't miss games when he punched Root. Fights between players are not uncommon....it's just that a lot of them don't make it to mainstream media.
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Speaking to Geoff Cook today they may released Mark Wood from Durham. He rates him but the kid has had an operation and maybe one too many bowlers on the books type deal.
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Old 26th November 2017, 12:37   #171
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Just caught up with the play I recorded before I went to bed.

Abysmal.
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Old 26th November 2017, 13:05   #172
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Just read this Tweet. Hoping it is "fake news"...


e
He is a ranga after all, just goes with the territory.
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Old 26th November 2017, 13:23   #173
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Panic not. We've lost the first test of an Ashes series on a few occasions and gone on to win the series.
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Speaking to Geoff Cook today they may released Mark Wood from Durham. He rates him but the kid has had an operation and maybe one too many bowlers on the books type deal.
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Old 26th November 2017, 13:30   #174
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Panic not. We've lost the first test of an Ashes series on a few occasions and gone on to win the series.
Not when itís at the Gabba.
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Old 26th November 2017, 13:30   #175
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Aggers has Tweeted this - hope he is correct:

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I understand from the camp that Bairstow and Bancroft were having a drink together. Their heads met. They carried on drinking together. More ammo for accusations of a drink culture, but this will not help relations between the teams. #Ashes2017
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Old 26th November 2017, 13:31   #176
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If they were having a drink together that surely indicates good relations between the teams?
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Old 26th November 2017, 13:34   #177
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If they were having a drink together that surely indicates good relations between the teams?
I suspect he means 'only if "stories" from such drink sessions don't get leaked to the media...'
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Old 26th November 2017, 13:47   #178
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Panic not. We've lost the first test of an Ashes series on a few occasions and gone on to win the series.
Only ever done so three times in Australia, the last occasion being in 1954/5, when England had Frank Tyson bowling at his most demonic.
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Old 26th November 2017, 15:19   #179
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Can't help but think Stokes would have made a huge difference in this game. Surely would have outperformed Ball in all facets of the game.
Ball was a really strange choice as a 4th or 5th bowler. He seems like someone who needs the new ball to have any chance of success. It's like when England were picking Jimmy as a 4th bowler in Sti Lanka and he was crap. He either needs to be picked as a new ball bowler or not at all. But it's difficult in this squad.

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Good selectors will find a way to both win a Test series, and develop players for the fututure.

Why all this focus on Crane? No way does he have the career figures to justify his place in the squad, let alone in the Test team.

If we lose this series, especially if we lose badly (as I fear we may), Bayliss has to go.
Why Bayliss?

Whitaker is the chairman of Selectors. He's in charge of selection of the squad.

Bayliss is responsible for coaching and tactics. I thought England looked tactically sharp with plans for each Aussie batsman. Sure, it wasn't good enough to get Smith but it wasn't for want of trying.

Andrew Strauss is the one in charge of the structure which has Whitaker in charge of selections. Strauss also appointed Bayliss over Gillespie - if you consider Bayliss at fault - and suspended England's best player before he'd even been charged with anything.

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If they were having a drink together that surely indicates good relations between the teams?
And if the players have drinks with the media...
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 26th November 2017, 15:57   #180
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If all are fit for Adelaide, I’d just swap Overton for Ball. It’ll be the most English like conditions and Overton has been consistently good in seaming conditions for 2 years. He also did well in the warm-ups. If it weren’t a day/night game, I’d seriously consider replacing Ball with Garton or even flying Plunkett over.

The problem is, Moeen could quite possibly be injured. Bowling with a spirit in your spinning finger is almost impossible. God knows what they do if he’s not fit. Suppose Ballance would have to come in at 6, and they’d have to play 3 seamers + Crane. Might just about be okay in a day/night game.
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