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Old 21st August 2018, 21:14   #1241
JS180
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India really have come on leaps and bounds, once upon a time it used to be about their spinners with Zaheer Khan being the only half decent seamer they had in the side. Nowadays though they have a swing/seam attack to rival ours if not better, Indian fans who do you have to thank for this? Is it down to Kohli? Is it thanks to the new head coach Ravi Shastri (I really enjoyed listening to him on the 'Debate' a few years back when you toured)? I also first saw Bumrah in the Saffers series and thought wtf, how do you bat against this guy his action is so awkward I have no idea what the ball will do when released, and so did the Saffers batsmen.
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Old 22nd August 2018, 07:37   #1242
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India really have come on leaps and bounds, once upon a time it used to be about their spinners with Zaheer Khan being the only half decent seamer they had in the side. Nowadays though they have a swing/seam attack to rival ours if not better, Indian fans who do you have to thank for this? Is it down to Kohli? Is it thanks to the new head coach Ravi Shastri (I really enjoyed listening to him on the 'Debate' a few years back when you toured)? I also first saw Bumrah in the Saffers series and thought wtf, how do you bat against this guy his action is so awkward I have no idea what the ball will do when released, and so did the Saffers batsmen.
In 1986, when India beat England in England 2-0, we had Kapil Dev, Roger Binny, and Chetan Sharma taking most of the wickets. In 2002, we had Zaheer Khan as did in 2007, with RP Singh and even Sreesanth.

The problem, at least since the 1990s have not been finding quicker bowlers but having them all fit and in form at the same time. For this, we have to thank the MRF Pace Foundation which has been churning out most of our pacers. What has happened in the last 3-4 years is that we have bowlers who are coming in greater numbers. This reduces the load on a single bowler, which helps them stay fitter, bowl at the same pace they started off with and get frequent rest in the form of rotation.

Kohli firmly believes in his pacers (so did Sachin, but he only had Srinath and Prasad who were reliable, and he bowled them to the ground) and usually sticks to having 2-3 of them even in India. That is one reason for his backing of Pandya, who has bowled way better than I expected him to, during this test match. It is nice to see our quicker bowlers actually bowling quick and also pose enough questions.
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Old 22nd August 2018, 15:41   #1243
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That 3rd bowlers spot - from 2010

No one seems to have nailed it down. I am counting Stokes as the 4th bowler. Either the bowler gets injured and someone new comes in as an injury replacement only to disappear when said bowler is fit. Then there is also someone needed when Anderson or Broad are injured.

With Root's captaincy the 3rd bowler usually comes in about the 9th over. The ball is still hard and the lacquer is wearing off ready for swing if there is any. With the second new ball if a bowler is bowling well he will get it. Even Stokes has taken the 2nd new ball. Went for 23 for 3 overs. He has done well though as the 3rd seamer 26.36.

Woakes - has taken the new ball 7 times ave 46.87 but most of those times have been in SA and India. Can see him opening with Broad when Anderson goes. Who will be no. 3 then? Will it be Tongue or Brookes?

Finn - opened the bowling 9 times 32.33, 25 times at no 3, 26.68
Seen as the most likely and has played 36 Tests.

Wood - opened the bowling 2 times 28.20, 10 times at 3, 50.66
The difference in averages is down to playing with injury or coming back too soon. After being out for 18 months he came back and picked up 2 wickets in 3 Tests. Chosen for his pace. Can he have a good f/c rest of season and be picked for the winter tours?

Roland-Jones - most successful 3rd bowler 4 Tests 19.64 as well as S Curran 3 Tests 23.50

The others since 2010 have been Shahzad (1 Test), Sidebottom (1), Onions (2), Tremlett (9) Bresnan (21), Jordan (8), Plunkett (4), Rankin (1), Overton (3), Ball (4), T Curran (2).

Overton, Ball and T Curran are interesting. All had overseas starts but you wonder why any weren't first choice again. After the winter all three were playing in the ODIs. Porter seems flavour of the month now in Tests.

You would want 4 different types of fast bowler and I thought we had when it was Anderson swing, Broad seam, Curran left-arm swing and Stokes pace, bounce, swing.
Our best 3rd bowler is Jimmy.

He's our best "dry" bowler, he's a good reverse swing bowler.

I'd rather 4 good bowlers than 3 good bowlers and a lesser variety bowler.
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Old 22nd August 2018, 15:53   #1244
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Our best 3rd bowler is Jimmy.

He's our best "dry" bowler, he's a good reverse swing bowler.

I'd rather 4 good bowlers than 3 good bowlers and a lesser variety bowler.
Maybe Anderson would find it better when the lacquer has worn off after 9 overs.

My ideal would be Anderson Broad S Curran Stokes

Bowlers who get batsmen 1-3 out

Philander 39.5%
Anderson 37.2%
Woakes 34.7%
Steyn 32.5%
Broad 32.3%
Rabada 28.5%
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Old 22nd August 2018, 16:21   #1245
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Maybe Anderson would find it better when the lacquer has worn off after 9 overs.

My ideal would be Anderson Broad S Curran Stokes

Bowlers who get batsmen 1-3 out

Philander 39.5%
Anderson 37.2%
Woakes 34.7%
Steyn 32.5%
Broad 32.3%
Rabada 28.5%
How do those figures change if you look at the last 12 months?
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Old 22nd August 2018, 17:23   #1246
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How do those figures change if you look at the last 12 months?
Last 12 months first 3 batsmen

Anderson 28 times
Rabada 20
Broad 17
Philander 14
Woakes 9
Steyn 1
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Old 22nd August 2018, 17:42   #1247
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Last 12 months first 3 batsmen

Anderson 28 times
Rabada 20
Broad 17
Philander 14
Woakes 9
Steyn 1
Sorry, what's that in percentages?
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 22nd August 2018, 18:16   #1248
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Sorry, what's that in percentages?
Philander 41.17 (9)
Woakes 37.5 (9)
Anderson 36.8 (16)
Broad 33.3 (15)
Rabada 28.5 (13)
Steyn 6.66 (6)
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Old 22nd August 2018, 18:30   #1249
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Philander 39.5%
Anderson 37.2%
Woakes 34.7%
Steyn 32.5%
Broad 32.3%
Rabada 28.5%
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000yardstare View Post
Philander 41.17 (9)
Woakes 37.5 (9)
Anderson 36.8 (16)
Broad 33.3 (15)
Rabada 28.5 (13)
Steyn 6.66 (6)
Thanks.

England's trio impressively having over 100%. Woakes' percentage looks particularly impressive given that he rarely takes the new ball, which I think he should have.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 16:41   #1250
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I would bring Sangakara in as a batting coach and Murali as spin coach ahead of the Sir Lanka series.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 16:50   #1251
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Is that realistic?
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Old 17th September 2018, 13:08   #1252
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Keeping an eye on workloads
Overs bowled in 2016 (all forms)

T Curran 702.2
Roland-Jones 687.3
Woakes 635.1
Broad 589.4
Overton 585.5
Ball 568.3
Stokes 547.5
Anderson 540.2
Finn 536.1
Jordan 419.3
S Curran 412.3
Plunkett 405.4
Willey 358.2
Wood 192.0

2017

Overton 737.2
Anderson 728.5
Broad 689.5
S Curran 609.3
Roland-Jones 580.4
TCurran 548.0
Woakes 496.0
Jordan 474.1
Ball 462.5
Finn 439.1
Plunkett 336.4
Stokes 330.1
Wood 316.0
Willey 234.0

2018..

Anderson 551.4
Broad 491.5
S Curran 489.0
Wood 438.1
Woakes 356.5
Overton 338.5
Stokes 309.2
Ball 282.0
Jordan 282.0
T Curran 239.3
Willey 196.2
Finn 185.4
Plunkett 165.0
Roland-Jones 68.0

2019

Anderson 109.1
Stokes 107.1
Broad 85.0
S Curran 58.0
T Curran 51.5
Plunkett 33.4
Wood 28.2
Jordan 25.3
Woakes 24.5
Willey

Last edited by 1000yardstare : 19th February 2019 at 04:11.
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Old 18th September 2018, 22:30   #1253
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Some interesting analysis on Cricinfo about the bowlers in the recent series and how often they managed to get the batsmen to play false or "not in control (NIC)" shots. Unlike past recent tours, the Indian bowlers forced more NICS per over than the English, but had a much lower "conversion" rate of NICS to wickets (NIX2WIX). Shami particularly suffered, and he also conceded a lot of runs across the series from edges.

Were England fortunate and India not? The article concludes that in the end it was England's depth in batting that made the difference.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...latter-england
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Old 19th September 2018, 12:38   #1254
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The analysis reinforces the impression gained during the series that whilst India bowled better than we did, they were not as generously rewarded for their efforts.
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Old 19th September 2018, 13:20   #1255
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Some interesting analysis on Cricinfo about the bowlers in the recent series and how often they managed to get the batsmen to play false or "not in control (NIC)" shots. Unlike past recent tours, the Indian bowlers forced more NICS per over than the English, but had a much lower "conversion" rate of NICS to wickets (NIX2WIX). Shami particularly suffered, and he also conceded a lot of runs across the series from edges.

Were England fortunate and India not? The article concludes that in the end it was England's depth in batting that made the difference.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...latter-england
There is an art to swing and seam bowling which involves getting the ball to do enough but not too much. The unplayable delivery rarely takes a wicket, it just beats the edge comfortably. Anderson has long since realised this, I don't think Shami has.
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Old 20th September 2018, 13:38   #1256
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https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-new...vneshwar-kumar

Make no mistake, it's a hard delivery to master. Langeveldt took a whole summer, Zaheer spent a considerable time on it while Tye took "nearly five to six years" to gain the confidence to bowl it in high-pressure situations. Bhuvneshwar, though he was the quickest to master it, took a full tour of Australia - that included four Tests and some limited-overs games - to get comfortable with it.
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Old 21st September 2018, 12:35   #1257
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There is an art to swing and seam bowling which involves getting the ball to do enough but not too much. The unplayable delivery rarely takes a wicket, it just beats the edge comfortably. Anderson has long since realised this, I don't think Shami has.
Yep. A lot of it is about length. Sure, over a short time there’s a lot of luck but if you’re beating the bat once or twice an over and keep missing the edge you’re probably bowling a bit short, perhaps against a batsman doing a decent job of playing inside the line / holding tight to his off stump and not chasing. The Shami efforts against Ali in the fifth test followed that sort of pattern, although certainly Ali was lucky and Shami unlucky too.
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Old 22nd September 2018, 16:20   #1258
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There is an art to swing and seam bowling which involves getting the ball to do enough but not too much. The unplayable delivery rarely takes a wicket, it just beats the edge comfortably. Anderson has long since realised this, I don't think Shami has.
Probably why Anderson takes the Pavilion end at Lords when swing bowlers normally prefer the Nursery end. At he Nursery end the ball does too much and the batsman either leaves or plays and misses. At the Pavilion end it often does just enough to find the edge.
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Old 11th October 2018, 08:40   #1259
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In the recent World t20 qualifiers in Asia, Nepali legspinner Sandeep Lamichhane took 20 wickets off 17 overs at an average of...

2.05!!!
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Old 14th October 2018, 12:18   #1260
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Jason Holder's bowling.....

At the end of 2017 his bowling average was 38.52 econ 2.58 s/r 89.2. He had taken 1 5fer in his 29 Tests.

6 Tests in 2018 with his average down to 28.30 with 4 5fers.
33 wickets at 11.87!!!

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...ream-year-ball
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