All-rounders

[sharky]

Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer

I've never understood why wicketkeeper batsmen weren't considered all-rounders. I suppose these days they wouldn't get in the side if they couldn't bat so they don't count. I recall once trying to vote for Alec Stewart as my all-rounder of the year in a WCM poll and being disallowed.

True. Since the era of the great all-rounders, it is the wicket keepers that have had to balance the team with their batting.

[slowest_bowler]

Originally Posted by Josh

Yes but so did Ajit Agarkar.

As did Gillespie - but Warne was still the better all-rounder.

[MarkBen]

I think Kapil Dev,Jacques Kallis are best All rounders ever time.There few more cricketers who had tried to prove themselves as all rounder like Sachin Tendulkar and Sanath Jayasurya.You can also count Wasim Akram as a good All rounder but he is only good not best like Kapil Dev and Jacques Kallis.

[joylara]

There are many all rounder in cricket. And many of them are prove their self at the time of critical situation. but at my knowledge of cricket i am saying sachine tendulkar is one of the best player, batsman, cricketer, bowler, and last all rounder. And there is no dought about that.

[Aidan11]

Is Sachine as good as Courtney Walls?

[square leg umpire]

Sahine's bowling was feared throught the World. Apparently.

[1000yardstare]

6 is considered the all rounders place though they do bat in different positions. Most of these are new to the position and learning.

England - Stokes - 19 Tests batting - 28.58 bowling 40.44
Australia - Marsh - (8) 26.00 - 30.83
New Zealand - Anderson - (11) 31.35 - 38.46 or
New Zealand - Neesham - (9) 38.25 - 39.33
India - Jadeja? (13) 21.57 - 27.22
Bangladesh - Al-Hasan (42) 39.76 - 33.31
South Africa - Duminy (29) 35.55 - 37.17
West Indies - Holder (10) 29.66 - 33.31

I don't know who the all rounder is for Pakistan or Sri Lanka. Pakistan looks like 7 batsmen and 4 bowlers. Sarfraz Ahmed 46.28 I would call a batsman although he keeps but looking for a batsman/bowler all rounder. Afridi was the last.

Sobers 57.78 - 34.03
Kapil Dev 31.05 - 29.64
Pollock 32.31 - 23.11
Botham 33.54 - 28.40
Kallis 55.37 - 32.54

[sweatysock]

Matthews is surely the SL all-rounder, and Hafeez may have been for Pakistan before he wasnt allowed to bowl, and Shoaib Malik made a passable imitation of a bowler, but has retired now anyway

[slop]

Duminy has mostly batted at 7 recently.

[1000yardstare]

Originally Posted by slop

Duminy has mostly batted at 7 recently.

Would you consider him an all rounder or a batsman who bowls?
I looked at his last game.
17 times at 6 and 11 at 7.

[slop]

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare

Would you consider him an all rounder or a batsman who bowls?
I looked at his last game.
17 times at 6 and 11 at 7.

They let him bat a lot that game

I'd consider him a batsman that bowls a bit. Not sure where he'll at with Vilas the keeper.

[thedon]

edit

[thedon]

edit.

[sweatysock]

I looked at Matthews stats and he averages around 50 with both bat and ball in test cricket, which makes him an excellent batsman but not much cop as a bowler - his bowling is more useful in the one-day stuff

[1000yardstare]

Up date on all rounders - NZ and Australia trying out a new one

India - Ashwin 34.92/24.96 (44) at 7
Bangladesh - Al Hasan 39.05/32.18 (44) at 5
England - Stokes 33.96/34.46 (32) batting at 6
Australia - Cartwright 37.00/econ 3.75 (1) at 6
New Zealand - Grandhomme 32.66/ 12.22 (2) at 6

Sri Lanka - Mathews 46.74/54.38? bats at 5
West Indies - None. Can't call Holder an a/r as he bats at 8, 28.60/41.00

South Africa - None - bat down to 7 and 4 bowlers, Duminy part-timer
Pakistan - None - bat down to 7 and 4 bowlers

[MRNC4.0]

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare

6 is considered the all rounders place though they do bat in different positions. Most of these are new to the position and learning.

England - Stokes - 19 Tests batting - 28.58 bowling 40.44
Australia - Marsh - (8) 26.00 - 30.83
New Zealand - Anderson - (11) 31.35 - 38.46 or
New Zealand - Neesham - (9) 38.25 - 39.33
India - Jadeja? (13) 21.57 - 27.22
Bangladesh - Al-Hasan (42) 39.76 - 33.31
South Africa - Duminy (29) 35.55 - 37.17
West Indies - Holder (10) 29.66 - 33.31

I don't know who the all rounder is for Pakistan or Sri Lanka. Pakistan looks like 7 batsmen and 4 bowlers. Sarfraz Ahmed 46.28 I would call a batsman although he keeps but looking for a batsman/bowler all rounder. Afridi was the last.

Sobers 57.78 - 34.03
Kapil Dev 31.05 - 29.64
Pollock 32.31 - 23.11
Botham 33.54 - 28.40
Kallis 55.37 - 32.54

Imran Khan is surely worth a shout? Superior to Botham, Pollock and Dev at least.

[JRC67]

Originally Posted by MRNC4.0

Imran Khan is surely worth a shout? Superior to Botham, Pollock and Dev at least.

Peak Botham was very good but he had a long period in the team of steady decline. At his peak many people thought he would end his career as a top 4 batsman and part time bowlers. The reality was both bowling and batting declined almost in unison. Over their whole careers I'd agree Imran was better.

[MRNC4.0]

Originally Posted by JRC67

Peak Botham was very good but he had a long period in the team of steady decline. At his peak many people thought he would end his career as a top 4 batsman and part time bowlers. The reality was both bowling and batting declined almost in unison. Over their whole careers I'd agree Imran was better.

Imran had a much better record against the West Indies as well, the best side of their era. I think that should count for a lot, as well as being captain and taking Pakistan to a world cup victory. Over-all, arguably one of the most inspiring sportsman ever.

[billyguntheballs]

Going back to the original objective of the post: discussing why we have so few test worthy ball/bat all rounders. The reason I believe is simple: not enough cricketers have the mental aptitude and application, along with the physical gifts to be a top batsman AND a top bowler over the 5 day game, when they can apply themselves for greater financial reward in the shorter format.

It's also seen the rise of the spin bowling all rounder...with spin bowling basically being the art of getting a little bit of turn these days and being able to handle the bat well enough to score useful runs. Hasan is a great example of this trend. He is a good bowler and a decent enough bat but far from great in both roles and his spin bowling isn't exactly beautiful and skillful to watch on the level of great spinners.

The age of the great all rounder where say Khans bowling could be compared to every other great fast bowler or Kallis' batting to every other great batsman is gone.

[MRNC4.0]

Originally Posted by billyguntheballs

The age of the great all rounder where say Khans bowling could be compared to every other great fast bowler or Kallis' batting to every other great batsman is gone.

There was an 'age'? Kallis only retired barely 3 years ago, and their careers were 20 years apart! Sobers, 20 years before that. They're a very rare commodity, but someone will come along again. Unfortunately, any batsman whom averages into the 40s and higher tends to treat their bowling as an after-thought or disregard it completely. Which is ridiculous since bowlers are expected to contribute with the bat or face being criticized.