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Old 22nd September 2018, 08:25   #41
Rebelstar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRC67 View Post
Jennings must be starting otherwise why take him.

...

You've got to think Jennings only has one, maximum two, matches to score some runs.
Isn't the theory he's good against spin? Someone must like him or they'd have dumped him on lack of output ages ago.

Burns
Jennings
Denly
Root
Pope

Bairstow
Buttler

Stokes
Curran
Woakes

Ali
Rashid
Leach

Broad
Stone
Anderson

Not at all surprised they've retained Rashid, Jennings was always a probable retention given Cook retired which may have left England two options and not ideal ones either of them.

Burns was just a pick everything was pointing towards being inevitable

Denly is the big surprise to me, a little perplexing the selection of spinner(s) given England seem to go through quite a few, but I think Root, Ali, Anderson, Broad, Bairstow, Buttler, Stokes and Woakes were pretty certain to go, Rashid, Jennings and Curran more than evens, and in spite of all the talk of spin I think I'd said somewhere on here that England were always likely to take a lot of pace options and Broad, Stone, Anderson, Curran, Woakes and Stokes proves that - 3/8 of the squad are quick bowling options, go figure......

If you're only intending playing 2-3 quicks why take 6?!?! Maybe they'll leave out Broad or Anderson but can't see it myself. Thug has come through a trial, been put on a disrepute charge, yet selected so clearly they want him regardless, and with Curran and Woakes having pretty good summers why take Stone?!? Wouldn't be surprised to see them pick a similar if not same bowling line up as they preferred in the summer, Rashid and Ali making up a six.

Don't forget Root is a pretty handy spinner, taking his wickets @ 47, bagging a couple of wickets in an innings five times, all that in a bowling career that has seen him bowl 10+ overs in an innings only eight times and 18 balls or less THIRTY SIX times ie if he bowled more one might reasonably conclude he'd have a better record.

1-18 balls : 5 wkts @ 50.80 (SR 87.40, ER 3.49)
19-59 balls : 7 wkts @ 48.71 (SR 97.29, ER 3.00)
60+ balls : 7 wkts @ 42.57 (SR 94.86, ER 2.69)

His ability to grab a wicket bowling a few overs, done five times in bowls of three overs or less @ 5.00 average, keep his SR reasonable, but his average compares with that of Ali (39.06 overall) when bowling 10+ overs which Ali does a fair bit of the time without nearly as many bowls of 3 or less overs.

His SR is some streets worse, but then Ali has bowled less than 10 overs 20 times and had a fair few bowls with opportunity taken to take 3+ wickets - 13 overs the fewest he's bowled in taking 4+ wickets with a few around the 16 mark including his most recent 5/63.

Root might not have taken that many wickets, might not have taken any, but he's not given the chance to prove it one way or the other and usually only bowling more than a few overs where the bowling attack isn't exactly ripping the batting line up apart or he wouldn't bowl at all!
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Old 22nd September 2018, 11:03   #42
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Good to see Denly going.
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Old 22nd September 2018, 13:04   #43
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...If he bats all day for every day if the series he will make a dent in your cow pot. ....
Translation anyone?

I thought Broad was going to be given a "rest". We seem a bit top heavy on seam bowlers.
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Old 22nd September 2018, 14:52   #44
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Translation anyone?

I thought Broad was going to be given a "rest". We seem a bit top heavy on seam bowlers.
Bit complicated and SVaZ’s overlay doesn’t help but Sharky had Denly down to score 10 000 test runs rather earlier in his career. He also said he’d stick his head in a cow if Surrey got relegated similarly long ago. I think the two have become conflated.

I don’t really see why they’ve picked Broad. Well, I do but I think it would have been more sensible to have rested him.
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Old 22nd September 2018, 15:02   #45
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Think Leach and Ali play and would like Denly as third spinner. Would only play 3 seamers ... Anderson, Stokes and poss Curran (if they think he can do a Vaas).
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Old 24th September 2018, 10:16   #46
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Bit complicated and SVaZ’s overlay doesn’t help but Sharky had Denly down to score 10 000 test runs rather earlier in his career. He also said he’d stick his head in a cow if Surrey got relegated similarly long ago. I think the two have become conflated.

I don’t really see why they’ve picked Broad. Well, I do but I think it would have been more sensible to have rested him.
Ah, thanks for that.

Sorry I asked!

Presumably, Broad is up for the series. I'm sure his seniority would have allowed him to have a rest, should he have wanted one.
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Old 24th September 2018, 18:00   #47
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Think Leach and Ali play and would like Denly as third spinner. Would only play 3 seamers ... Anderson, Stokes and poss Curran (if they think he can do a Vaas).
So they will drop Rashid after he won the final test vs India ?
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Old 24th September 2018, 18:34   #48
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So they will drop Rashid after he won the final test vs India ?
Not really sure that taking 3 wickets in a test constitutes a match winning performance, although the Rahul wicket was a good ball. I suspect it's between him and Denly. They will want one spinner they think will be good for 30 plus overs a day and you wouldn't bet on Rashid for that. Sri Lankan wickets generally suit finger spin over leg spin so it's very possible.
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Old 24th September 2018, 18:51   #49
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I think they’ll play Rashid. For me he was a dubious pick at home and his overall contribution was pretty small, exactly as I’d have expected and hence not picked him. He mostly did okay overall when called upon, however, so his stock hasn’t really fallen much, although the fourth test on a helpful surface should give us serious pause about his utility on turning tracks. As JRC says, it tends to be finger spin that does well in Sri Lanka unless the leg spin is real premium stuff. Nonetheless, it would look really eccentric to have had him spectating in the side for half the summer then drop him on a tour where we actually need two or more spinners. I think the question is much more around how vulnerable he is if he has a bad test or two than whether he’ll play first up.
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Old 26th September 2018, 12:29   #50
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Old 26th September 2018, 13:03   #51
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Not really sure that taking 3 wickets in a test constitutes a match winning performance, although the Rahul wicket was a good ball. I suspect it's between him and Denly. They will want one spinner they think will be good for 30 plus overs a day and you wouldn't bet on Rashid for that. Sri Lankan wickets generally suit finger spin over leg spin so it's very possible.
They will play both. They need more batsmen in the team not less.

4 bowlers plus Stokes is fine.
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Old 26th September 2018, 14:03   #52
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Jock - Are you playing Ali??
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Old 26th September 2018, 20:31   #53
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They will play both. They need more batsmen in the team not less.

4 bowlers plus Stokes is fine.
I’m not sure what that means you’re suggesting the team should be. I’m guessing you want another spin option inferior to Ali associated with probably worse batting than his too in order to facilitate leaving him out because of your cat. Then your bowlers are Rashid, Leach, Anderson and perhaps Curran with Stokes and Denly in reserve?
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Old 27th September 2018, 12:07   #54
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...-england-tests

Sri Lanka have picked 5 spinners in their squad. Are England brave enough to pick the 3 spinners and just go with Anderson & Stokes as seamers.
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Old 27th September 2018, 13:06   #55
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...-england-tests

Sri Lanka have picked 5 spinners in their squad. Are England brave enough to pick the 3 spinners and just go with Anderson & Stokes as seamers.
Probably not until they're behind in the series.
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Old 27th September 2018, 13:16   #56
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...-england-tests

Sri Lanka have picked 5 spinners in their squad. Are England brave enough to pick the 3 spinners and just go with Anderson & Stokes as seamers.
I think if they were that brave they'd have taken a 4th spinner as back up just in case. Tbh Root might prove as dangerous as anyone if the pitches turn a ridiculous amount.
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Old 27th September 2018, 14:18   #57
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If the selectors believe in Denly's bowling then I think they will go with Ali and Leach leaving Rashid out.
One might ask if they don't believe in his bowling how did he get selected?!?
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Old 27th September 2018, 15:46   #58
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After the experience of recent years it seems that batsmen are better spin bowlers than spin bowlers are, and that seam bowlers are better batsmen than batsmen are. And we already knew that batsmen are better wicketkeepers than wicketkeepers are. So we'll pick a bunch of batsmen to do the spin bowling, and a bunch of seam bowlers to do the batting, and YJB to do the keeping, and Jimmy to do the seam bowling if there's any need for it, because bless him, he can't do anything else.
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Old 27th September 2018, 15:47   #59
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If the selectors believe in Denly's bowling then I think they will go with Ali and Leach leaving Rashid out.
One might ask if they don't believe in his bowling how did he get selected?!?
I've seen very little of Denly, maybe twice in 14 years. Kent do play on spicy wickets so his career batting average is below what it would have been at, say, Surrey. I've never seen him bowl, so I definitely can't comment on that. If he's picked partly for his bowling it does seem unusual it has improved so much late in his career. I can think of a few seamers who moved a fair way up the order through their career. Shastri started at 11 as a spinner and ended up opening for India. Can't think of any real parallels to Denly.
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Old 27th September 2018, 15:55   #60
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I am not sure what has triggered the performance change apart from the need to bowl more because of team shortages - but his bowling this year has been a class different to previously with 23 at 18.5 in the championship and 57 wickets all in. Getting Buttler first ball recently in the T20 QF might have helped!

To be honest, he would not have been picked on batting alone. But given that the main two spinners need to be tight (Leach, Ali) can see him getting picked as the third. Of course if Stokes and Anderson is enough seam bowling then Rashid can play too.
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