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Old Yesterday, 15:56   #1601
Jock McTuffnel v3
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
Because of his overall contribution mostly. Man of the series vs saffers. Plus leach wasn't on the radar due to action. I was pro moeen over all the other options. Given the top order has been crap anyway they might as well pick moeen at five and second spinner.
Moeen who scored virtually no runs in the Ashes ? And bowled like a drain ?

You were advocating him over Malan - he showed what picking a specialist player can do.

More specialists - less jacks of no trades.

Get Leach over to NZ after this tour. Give him a shot - and if not what on earth is the point of the Lions tour ?
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Old Yesterday, 16:05   #1602
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Moeen who scored virtually no runs in the Ashes ? And bowled like a drain ?

You were advocating him over Malan - he showed what picking a specialist player can do.

More specialists - less jacks of no trades.

Get Leach over to NZ after this tour. Give him a shot - and if not what on earth is the point of the Lions tour ?
I wouldn't have malan at three days send vince on a long holiday.
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Old Yesterday, 16:08   #1603
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
I wouldn't have malan at three days send vince on a long holiday.
Can assure you that the team to face NZ will be a Bobby Ewing shower moment with the Ashes airbrushed from history.

"He's a good bloke and has scored runs for us before .... deserves another chance blah blah blah blah"

Look at the final test of the summer vs Windies - that will be the team minus Westley I guess


AN Cook
MD Stoneman
T Westley >>>> Vince
JE Root (c)
DJ Malan
BA Stokes
JM Bairstow †
MM Ali
TS Roland-Jones (if fit)
SCJ Broad
JM Anderson
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Old Yesterday, 16:21   #1604
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What about woakes? Isn't craig ahead of TRj these days.

Ah Westley. Good times. At least the current three nicks off to slip with style and panache.
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Old Yesterday, 16:28   #1605
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@andywiz
early reprieve, as Jennings loses off stump to a no-ball from Keon Joseph

@andywiz
unbelievable - Hameed is run out by direct hit after Jennings called for quick single to cover. 43-1



80/4

Last edited by 1000yardstare : Yesterday at 17:29.
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Old Yesterday, 16:36   #1606
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
What about woakes? Isn't craig ahead of TRj these days.

Ah Westley. Good times. At least the current three nicks off to slip with style and panache.
Woakes still injured remember ..
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Old Yesterday, 17:34   #1607
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Woakes still injured remember ..
When did he get injured?
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Old Yesterday, 18:04   #1608
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What an absolute shower from the Lions.
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Old Yesterday, 18:18   #1609
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@andywiz
early reprieve, as Jennings loses off stump to a no-ball from Keon Joseph

@andywiz
unbelievable - Hameed is run out by direct hit after Jennings called for quick single to cover. 43-1



80/4
Very close call on the run out, was inconclusive to my eye after slowing the video down and looking at screenshots.
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Old Yesterday, 20:00   #1610
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Can someone explain how achieving England's a's best ever figures for a spin bowler and then a six fer is not a demonstration that he is the best spinner. Leach has taken more wickets than the rest of the England bowlers put together.

Poor old GBG. Leach could get a ten fer and win a test and he will still be shouting in an empty room that leach is rubbish.
GBG thinks all spin bowlers are rubbish. But haven't you been arguing (or rather bleating) for years that picking the best spinner would be stupid?
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Old Yesterday, 20:16   #1611
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GBG thinks all spin bowlers are rubbish. But haven't you been arguing (or rather bleating) for years that picking the best spinner would be stupid?
We had about 6 months peace from the bleating last year. I don't know why people are knocking Leach for taking wickets though, I see it as a positive that a spinner is putting his hand up. There are places in the world where the pitch will spin from day one so seeing Leach do well in the (theoretical) level below Test cricket is encouraging. If he can be accurate and economical on flatter pitches then even better.
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Old Yesterday, 20:23   #1612
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We had about 6 months peace from the bleating last year. I don't know why people are knocking Leach for taking wickets though, I see it as a positive that a spinner is putting his hand up. There are places in the world where the pitch will spin from day one so seeing Leach do well in the (theoretical) level below Test cricket is encouraging. If he can be accurate and economical on flatter pitches then even better.
Might as well give him a go in the summer or next winter.
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Old Yesterday, 20:37   #1613
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I couldn't care less about Rashid, why would I? He's of no interest looking at our Test requirements now.

Just because Leach takes a few wickets doesn't actually mean he's any good. I have no county bias here, just trying to be objective. Leach has been hugely outbowled by a guy with a Test average of 46. Maybe it tells us that the future of West Indian batting is brighter than ours?
Warrican’s test average is about as good an indicator of his bowling ability as his first class one, given the sample size.
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Old Yesterday, 20:38   #1614
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GBG thinks all spin bowlers are rubbish. But haven't you been arguing (or rather bleating) for years that picking the best spinner would be stupid?
You missed the nuance. Unless you have a specialist spinner who is good then take the compromise. Rashid, batty, crane, tredwell etc are arguably no better than moeen so you take the overall package. Leach is different. He is a genuine wicket taker AND can offer control. It is about who, on balance, brings most to the team.
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Old Yesterday, 21:23   #1615
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
You missed the nuance. Unless you have a specialist spinner who is good then take the compromise. Rashid, batty, crane, tredwell etc are arguably no better than moeen so you take the overall package. Leach is different. He is a genuine wicket taker AND can offer control. It is about who, on balance, brings most to the team.
A major qualification is needed here :

So far he has shown himself to be a wicket taker on pitches that hugely favour spin bowling
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Old Yesterday, 22:28   #1616
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Lions lose by an innings & 17 runs.
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Old Yesterday, 22:51   #1617
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A major qualification is needed here :

So far he has shown himself to be a wicket taker on pitches that hugely favour spin bowling
As earlier...are we pretending he doesn't have a better career best at headingley than rashid?
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Old Yesterday, 23:13   #1618
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As earlier...are we pretending he doesn't have a better career best at headingley than rashid?
As far as I can see Leach has taken 10 wickets in 4 matches at Headingley at 32. Isn't that a bit underwhelming for a ground you've cherry-picked?

If Rashid's record there is worse than that it probably explains why he's jacked in first class cricket.
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Old Yesterday, 23:42   #1619
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As far as I can see Leach has taken 10 wickets in 4 matches at Headingley at 32. Isn't that a bit underwhelming for a ground you've cherry-picked?

If Rashid's record there is worse than that it probably explains why he's jacked in first class cricket.
Look at best bowling for an innings. he doesn't get to bowl much there because either a) overton skittles them and we win easily or b) we score 230 runs for 20.

You must really rate overton then if you write off leach for wickets at Taunton when it is a struggle for seamers. Or does GBG logic dictate that no runs count at Taunton because it is a road, no spin wickets because it turns and no seamers count because erm...they just don't.

Finn take wickets on a lord's green top and gets celebrated. Leach and overton skittle Middlesex and it is not fair (Finn failed badly). I assume you will tie yourself up in contradictory knots like the media.

Now if only overton played all his matches at Trent bridge.
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Old Today, 00:42   #1620
Jock McTuffnel v3
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
You missed the nuance. Unless you have a specialist spinner who is good then take the compromise. Rashid, batty, crane, tredwell etc are arguably no better than moeen so you take the overall package. Leach is different. He is a genuine wicket taker AND can offer control. It is about who, on balance, brings most to the team.
Meh - some revisionism going on here -in the summer Moeen had changed his bowling and was the new Murali according to you.

His dreadful showing in the Ashes points out it was just an awful Lords pitch and a weak Saffer team.

Leach deserves a chance but I doubt he will get one - if not what is the point of the Lions ?
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