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Old 30th May 2016, 22:43   #241
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I like Moeen but I just don't think he's a good enough bowler. I reckon if Root bowled as much as Moeen he'd have a better strike-rate and average because he's a better spinner of the ball and actually seems to think about his bowling which I don't get the impression that Moeen does.
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Old 30th May 2016, 22:51   #242
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Is scoring and conceding a century in the same match a bit like scoring at both ends in football?
No. Obviously not.
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Old 30th May 2016, 23:13   #243
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I like Moeen but I just don't think he's a good enough bowler. I reckon if Root bowled as much as Moeen he'd have a better strike-rate and average because he's a better spinner of the ball and actually seems to think about his bowling which I don't get the impression that Moeen does.
Agree with you here Zebster.

I've seen little improvement from Ali with the ball. While we're winning so comfortably though it isn't seen as an issue.

The moment we lose (India, perhaps) then Ali's selection as primary spin option should come in to question.
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Old 31st May 2016, 03:43   #244
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Moeen is taken off after taking a wicket because he's the worst of the bowlers.
Which, given he's just taken the wicket, doesn't say much about the form of the other bowlers who couldn't take that wicket...

"I'm out of ideas - let's bowl the spinner and hope... oooh, that broke the stand, so let's go back to the approach which wasn't working before and expect different results!"
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Old 31st May 2016, 10:20   #245
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Agree with you here Zebster.

I've seen little improvement from Ali with the ball.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng... ew=cumulative

This date last year he had played 11 matches, had 33 wickets @ 32.60 at a S/R of 54 and an economy of 3.62

As of now he has played 25 matches , got 66 wickets @ 40.65 at a S/R of 65.6 and an economy of 3.71.

The last 12 months he has 14 matches, 33 wickets @ 48.69 , S/R 77.2 and eco of 3.78.

That includes a tour in the spin friendly conditions of the UAE..
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Old 31st May 2016, 10:42   #246
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You're such a cherry picker. Ali hasn't done well with the ball in the last year but how spin friendly was the UAE for England's other spin bowlers against the Pakistani batsmen?
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Old 31st May 2016, 10:56   #247
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... Are tredders and Riley playing this season?
You can find out the answer to this question yourself fairly easily if you're interested. Riley hasn't yet taken a first-class wicket this season and Tredwell seems to be preferred by Kent at the moment. He hasn't bowled much but he's doing OK, with 6 wickets at just under 30 and an economy rate of just over 3.
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Old 31st May 2016, 11:20   #248
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Borthwick also has the best Test bowling average of all the spinners. ...
Indeed he has. Not sure that a sample size of one test match makes it very relevant, though.
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Old 31st May 2016, 11:25   #249
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I like Moeen but I just don't think he's a good enough bowler. I reckon if Root bowled as much as Moeen he'd have a better strike-rate and average because he's a better spinner of the ball and actually seems to think about his bowling which I don't get the impression that Moeen does.
Yes, and if it weren't for Root's dodgy back, it's probable that Ali would be out of the side.
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Old 31st May 2016, 11:37   #250
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Yes, and if it weren't for Root's dodgy back, it's probable that Ali would be out of the side.
I doubt it - as long as he keeps scoring runs his exploits with the ball will be ignored by the selectors.
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Old 31st May 2016, 11:38   #251
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I doubt it - as long as he keeps scoring runs his exploits with the ball will be ignored by the selectors.
Until we need wickets from a front line spinner, definitely.

Hardly going to happen on our soil.
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Old 31st May 2016, 12:49   #252
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I doubt it - as long as he keeps scoring runs his exploits with the ball will be ignored by the selectors.
Given that he averages over 50 with the bat, I'm not surprised the selectors don't spend much time looking at his bowling.
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Old 31st May 2016, 12:53   #253
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Don't forget brainless selectors.
And cat-less fans.

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Moeen is taken off after taking a wicket because he's the worst of the bowlers. Cook knows that Moeen is picked for his batting, and Cook knows that the spin bowler is picked for his batting because spin bowling is not as good as seam bowling. You don't want the worst bowler bowling at the new batsman. The main reason batsman after batsman has a go and tries to get after Moeen is because they know they're far better at batting than he is at bowling.

Cook is anyway an awful captain. He's never going to be able to captain any bowling attack that doesn't work by numbers.

And there's not really any point in picking spin bowlers to bowl if we never pick a good keeper. Yes coaching Bairstow will improve his keeping and thus improve the team, but really if we want it to be worthwhile picking the best spinner then we need to pick the best keeper too.

I don't think any serious thought will be given to how not to lose abroad.
Agree on Cook's captaincy.

If England actually had a good finger spinner would you suggest picking him, if that would require weakening the batting in not just one area but two as you suggest you'd need to change keeper as well.

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Until we need wickets from a front line spinner, definitely.

Hardly going to happen on our soil.
Or overseas.
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Old 31st May 2016, 13:05   #254
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Given that he averages over 50 with the bat, I'm not surprised the selectors don't spend much time looking at his bowling.
I think you'll find it's nearer 31.54.
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Old 31st May 2016, 13:28   #255
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... If England actually had a good finger spinner would you suggest picking him, if that would require weakening the batting in not just one area but two as you suggest you'd need to change keeper as well. ...
I don't think it would necessarily weaken the batting to pick a spinner. Finn could be dropped to make room for him. It might strengthen the batting.

To increase the wicket-taking potential of any bowler it would be desirable to improve the keeping. That applies to spinners more than to seamers, as a rule. But still I think it would be worth picking a better spinner.

Similarly I think it would be worth picking a better captain, even if he were not from the right kind of family.

I suppose I meant that if the decision has already been made that we will only pick our best keeper by accident (i.e. if he's also the best-batting keeper), then it's easier subsequently to make the decision that we will only pick our best spinner by accident (i.e. if he's also the best-batting spinner).
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Old 31st May 2016, 13:35   #256
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I think you'll find it's nearer 31.54.
Unlike you to get a Yorkshire player's average wrong in the direction of making it worse.
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Old 31st May 2016, 13:53   #257
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Or overseas.
In India, maybe?
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Old 31st May 2016, 13:58   #258
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In India, maybe?
Maybe India, but even there I think our best seamers may have better records than our best spinners.
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Old 31st May 2016, 14:04   #259
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Given that he averages over 50 with the bat, I'm not surprised the selectors don't spend much time looking at his bowling.
Borthwick for Compton and see if two half spinners make a whole ?
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Old 31st May 2016, 14:13   #260
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Maybe one day England will pick a spinner for his bowling and have the courage to take a long term view and stick with him. We seem to be able to do it for underperforming batsmen - usually by dropping the spinner.
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