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Old 11th July 2017, 09:32   #421
Notts Exile
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Having seen his impact in the shorter forms I would expect Chris Morris to come in and do a job. I don';t think hes a great bowler but he's a real competitor and will give everything.

It's tough selecting a squad when solid picks are deserting you, look at Abbott and Harmer for starters. I'm not convinced that Van Zyl or Roussow are Test players, Roussow might be a good ODI pick though.

What happened to Marchant de Lange? And then the other guy down at Glamorgan, Colin Ingram? Is he actually much different to Roussow though?
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Old 11th July 2017, 10:19   #422
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England need to win the series 4-0 to go above the Saffers in the ICC rankings.
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Old 11th July 2017, 10:36   #423
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Having seen his impact in the shorter forms I would expect Chris Morris to come in and do a job. I don';t think hes a great bowler but he's a real competitor and will give everything.

It's tough selecting a squad when solid picks are deserting you, look at Abbott and Harmer for starters. I'm not convinced that Van Zyl or Roussow are Test players, Roussow might be a good ODI pick though.

What happened to Marchant de Lange? And then the other guy down at Glamorgan, Colin Ingram? Is he actually much different to Roussow though?
I think Morris is a good call. Or how about picking Oliver? He has very good FC numbers and they say he can reverse the ball too, which would really help a mediocre bowling line up (without Rabada).

Team for the second test is likely:

1. Elgar
2. Kuhn
3. Amla
4. Faf c
5. QDK wk (no point in him batting so low)
6. Markram
7. Morris
8. Philander
9. Maharaj
10. Oliver
11. Morkel
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Old 11th July 2017, 10:48   #424
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England need to win the series 4-0 to go above the Saffers in the ICC rankings.
I'll take the series win first. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
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Old 11th July 2017, 12:31   #425
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I can't quite remember the specifics of the SA quota system at international level but isn't it something like 6 non-white players, of which 2 must be black Africans?

In the last test they had Amla, Duminy, Bavuma, Philander, Maharaj and Rabada plus maybe QDK too. [I'm sure I read somewhere that he was classed "Cape-coloured".]

Does Philander's presence in the XI (assuming he is fit) mean SA can pick who they consider the best bowler in the squad to replace KG or will they be obliged to pick Phehlukwayo?
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Old 11th July 2017, 12:44   #426
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I can't quite remember the specifics of the SA quota system at international level but isn't it something like 6 non-white players, of which 2 must be black Africans?

In the last test they had Amla, Duminy, Bavuma, Philander, Maharaj and Rabada plus maybe QDK too. [I'm sure I read somewhere that he was classed "Cape-coloured".]

Does Philander's presence in the XI (assuming he is fit) mean SA can pick who they consider the best bowler in the squad to replace KG or will they be obliged to pick Phehlukwayo?
Philander is a coloured by their old system. QdK is coloured. I reckon it was probably Midnight on here who first mentioned it a few years ago when it appeared she had quite a thing for him.
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Old 11th July 2017, 13:34   #427
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All sounds a bit confusing. One half expects a dulex colour chart to be part of this protocol. If you're going to count De Kok as coloured you might as well stick the policy in the bin tbh
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Old 11th July 2017, 13:36   #428
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Originally Posted by Psyduck View Post
I can't quite remember the specifics of the SA quota system at international level but isn't it something like 6 non-white players, of which 2 must be black Africans?

In the last test they had Amla, Duminy, Bavuma, Philander, Maharaj and Rabada plus maybe QDK too. [I'm sure I read somewhere that he was classed "Cape-coloured".]

Does Philander's presence in the XI (assuming he is fit) mean SA can pick who they consider the best bowler in the squad to replace KG or will they be obliged to pick Phehlukwayo?
My understanding is that officially there are no specifics of the quota system because there isn't a quota system; the team is chosen purely on merit.
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Old 11th July 2017, 13:44   #429
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My understanding is that officially there are no specifics of the quota system because there isn't a quota system; the team is chosen purely on merit.
You might find this interesting.
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Old 11th July 2017, 13:51   #430
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You might find this interesting.
Thanks, Psy. I stand corrected.

Maybe they could try something like that in England.
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Old 11th July 2017, 14:06   #431
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Thanks, Psy. I stand corrected.
Back to my point - I guess in theory they could omit Phehlukwayo at Trent Bridge but they might find themselves forced to drop Morne Morkel for him later in the series to "compensate" for Rabada's absence.
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Old 11th July 2017, 14:48   #432
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Thanks, Psy. I stand corrected.

Maybe they could try something like that in England.
They already are - all teams must have 2 from Yorkshire.
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Old 11th July 2017, 18:49   #433
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Back to my point - I guess in theory they could omit Phehlukwayo at Trent Bridge but they might find themselves forced to drop Morne Morkel for him later in the series to "compensate" for Rabada's absence.
I think Phelukwayo has natural talent and worth a debut. They might want to back him up with Morris as well, which could reinstate Duminy as the token spin option.

Elgar, Kuhn, Amla, Faf, Bavuma, De Kock, Duminy, Morris, Philander, Phelukwayo, Morkel

They could swap Kuhn and De Kock and have Kuhn keep wicket if they wanted.
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Old 11th July 2017, 19:08   #434
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They already are - all teams must have 2 from Yorkshire.

And 3 from Middlesex. Lancastrians need not apply. Notts and Leics players only on a Kolpak. Certainly no Welsh. Or Irish.
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Old 11th July 2017, 19:20   #435
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I think Phelukwayo has natural talent and worth a debut. They might want to back him up with Morris as well, which could reinstate Duminy as the token spin option.

Elgar, Kuhn, Amla, Faf, Bavuma, De Kock, Duminy, Morris, Philander, Phelukwayo, Morkel

They could swap Kuhn and De Kock and have Kuhn keep wicket if they wanted.
Think you've got it about right there although De Bruyn might be an alternative for Kuhn. And Duminy as your only spinner/pieman. Don't think Maharaj did anything wrong to get himself dropped.
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Old 12th July 2017, 07:27   #436
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Hi Maty, I did wonder about the batting stocks in particular, especially with ABDV seeminlgy given up test cricket as a bad job and with Faf away for this series. The bowling should still be reasonably competitive but as you say there are too many folk who are either not good enough or not ready. I see some folk singing the praises of Markaram, do you know that much about his likely value?
He's in a different mould to the South African openers we've seen of late in that there's more of an aggressive intent to his game. I can see why Kuhn was given the nod, he played well on the tour and has been consistent for long periods however it was such a safe pick. To often South Africa take to long to give young players a chance - just look at how long QDK was held back for when he was clearly ready.

I wouldn't expect Makram to come in at Trent Bridge, dropping Kuhn after one test would be daft and really the only batting change should be faf for Duminy. De bruyn did ok and dropping him off the back of that hardly sends a positive message. The balance of course is an issue and Morris at 7 is an option but if anything it just shifts things the other way and with only further weakens what is South Africa's poorest discipline.

Hopefully the return of Faf - who really should have been skipper across all forms of cricket across the summer - will bring about a more disciplined team, but I can't say feel anything but trepidation for the rest of the series.
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Old 12th July 2017, 07:34   #437
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Having seen his impact in the shorter forms I would expect Chris Morris to come in and do a job. I don';t think hes a great bowler but he's a real competitor and will give everything.

It's tough selecting a squad when solid picks are deserting you, look at Abbott and Harmer for starters. I'm not convinced that Van Zyl or Roussow are Test players, Roussow might be a good ODI pick though.

What happened to Marchant de Lange? And then the other guy down at Glamorgan, Colin Ingram? Is he actually much different to Roussow though?
The majority of those players are probably just a level below what's required for a sustained international career. Like you say Rossouw and van zyl have hardly set the world alight in county cricket, the latter somewhat surprisingly so. Ingram is an ok player and might have been an option in limited overs cricket but would again never have been a consistent selection. Harmer is a bizarre one in that he never looked anything more than average, whether he's just in the midst of s purple patch or Essex are utilising his talent in ways South Africa couldn't only time will tell. Abbott i do feel for and is probably the biggest loss, yet quota or no quota he was no never assured a place given that South Africa have some depth in that area.
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Old 13th July 2017, 10:38   #438
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I can't quite remember the specifics of the SA quota system at international level but isn't it something like 6 non-white players, of which 2 must be black Africans?

In the last test they had Amla, Duminy, Bavuma, Philander, Maharaj and Rabada plus maybe QDK too. [I'm sure I read somewhere that he was classed "Cape-coloured".]

Does Philander's presence in the XI (assuming he is fit) mean SA can pick who they consider the best bowler in the squad to replace KG or will they be obliged to pick Phehlukwayo?
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All sounds a bit confusing. One half expects a dulex colour chart to be part of this protocol. If you're going to count De Kok as coloured you might as well stick the policy in the bin tbh
As Luke says, the policy needs to be binned if white players can be considered as "coloured". It's all corrupt anyway.

Let's make it plain and simple. Africans should be counted as part of the quota, as should Asians, with obvious room for those with mixed race backgrounds. Then what must be looked at, is the financial background from which these players come from.

As it stands, the quota system is just a bit of a pr stunt.
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Old 13th July 2017, 10:58   #439
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As Luke says, the policy needs to be binned if white players can be considered as "coloured". It's all corrupt anyway.

Let's make it plain and simple. Africans should be counted as part of the quota, as should Asians, with obvious room for those with mixed race backgrounds. Then what must be looked at, is the financial background from which these players come from.

As it stands, the quota system is just a bit of a pr stunt.
I'm no expert but it's a bit more complicated than the colour of the players skin; it is their ethnic lineage.

You couldn't be more wrong on your final point.
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Old 13th July 2017, 11:38   #440
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I'm no expert but it's a bit more complicated than the colour of the players skin; it is their ethnic lineage.

You couldn't be more wrong on your final point.
Quite. Perhaps it's a confusion between the outmoded British term "coloured" used as a lazy catch-all to refer to non-white people and the ethnic "coloured" group in South Africa which have multi-ethnic ancestry.
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