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Old 22nd July 2009, 19:28   #21
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
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I'm not a great fan, but Cook clearly has some things going for him to score the runs he has at this level. I don't know whether I'd describe it as guts, but he does seem blessed with a very relaxed, unflappable temperement. Previous failures and obvious weaknesses do not seem to dog him mentally, and he just gets on with the job. He also has a couple of scoring areas in which he is very proficient and rarely misses out: i.e. the cut and especially the pull stroke, which yields him a lot of runs. Though why anybody ever bowls short to him I don't know, because it is difficult to see where his runs would come from if the ball was kept pitched up.

Another thing with Cook is whenever he goes back to play for Essex he seems to get mountains of runs and really dominate. Of course this is not entirely unexpected by a player dropping down a level, but it doesn't always work out like that. Whatever he has clearly marks him out as a cut above most other professionals, and also suggests there is a strong hunger there.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 20:25   #22
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Cook is one of the ugliest batsmen I have ever watched, but he averages 44.54 after 45 tests with 9x100 and 20x50. He even managed 50s in each of the 4 tests against the South Africans last summer- probably the side with the best bowling attack going at the moment.

We have to be a little bit more realistic when it comes to test openers, England are blessed that they have two good enough to play test cricket. When you look around, noone else can really claim the same thing bar India (although whilst Hughes is struggling against us at the moment, you feel he will be a big player for Australia long term). Decent test openers are a rare thing- since Hayden and Langer hung up their boots only Sehwag, Gambhir, Katich and Smith have really shone in this role. SL, NZ, WI and Pakistan have no settled openers, let alone settled partnerships.

So, in summary, Cook can do better (and at 24 you think he probably will), but up to now he is doing alright.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 22:27   #23
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He's making the most of his limited shot making according to the guy he mentors and he is probably right. I wouldn't be rushing to change our good partnership.
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Old 10th August 2013, 01:21   #24
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Most partnerships

57 innings 2589 runs at 47.07 7 100s 9 50s - Cook/Strauss
54 innings 2487 runs at 48.76 6 100s 15 50s -Trescothick/Vaughan
52 innings 2670 runs at 52.35 8 100s 12 50s - Strauss/Trescothick
51 innings 2880 runs at 60.00 8 100s 13 50s - Hutton/Washbrook
50 innings 1930 runs at 39.38 6 100s 8 50s - Atherton/Stewart
Compo and cook average nearly 60 together.
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Old 10th August 2013, 01:22   #25
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Read the whole thread. Some might consider themselves slightly over critical cook.
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Old 10th August 2013, 10:48   #26
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Read the whole thread. Some might consider themselves slightly over critical cook.
Four years worth of hindsight will do that.
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Old 10th August 2013, 10:53   #27
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Read the whole thread. Some might consider themselves slightly over critical cook.
I think most of the criticisms are fairly balanced, unlike your stats, which while accurate, present a highly distorted impression of Compton's merit, because Cook was generally in very good form while batting with him and was mostly still in when Compton got out. The particular exemplar is Compton's final test, in which Cook displayed a fluency we can only dream of this Ashes series, resulting in a good opening stand despite Compton batting so badly that he should have been offered euthanasia.

Thing is, I don't even mind Compton as a player (although a limited one who would have been nowhere near the side if we had better reserve batting options than we do) but your one eyed campaign makes it very hard not to disagree with you.
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Old 10th August 2013, 10:57   #28
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I think most of the criticisms are fairly balanced, unlike your stats, which while accurate, present a highly distorted impression of Compton's merit, because Cook was generally in very good form while batting with him and was mostly still in when Compton got out. The particular exemplar is Compton's final test, in which Cook displayed a fluency we can only dream of this Ashes series, resulting in a good opening stand despite Compton batting so badly that he should have been offered euthanasia.

Thing is, I don't even mind Compton as a player (although a limited one who would have been nowhere near the side if we had better reserve batting options than we do) but your one eyed campaign makes it very hard not to disagree with you.
I have made the point several times regarding kallis in odi cricket. If the partnership works it does not matter who scores the runs. If in every innings they get a century stand and one got ten and one got 90 then you have the best opening PARTNERSHIP in history
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Old 10th August 2013, 11:17   #29
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I have made the point several times regarding kallis in odi cricket. If the partnership works it does not matter who scores the runs. If in every innings they get a century stand and one got ten and one got 90 then you have the best opening PARTNERSHIP in history
If a partnership has one batsman scoring 10 and the other 90 it would almost certainly be greatly improved by finding someone who could score at least 20 and replacing the man scoring 10 with him. Then you'd have the best opening PARTNERSHIP in history plus 10.

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, we'll be taking a look at batsmen, not partnerships, because we select individuals, not pairs of players.
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Old 10th August 2013, 14:37   #30
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If a partnership has one batsman scoring 10 and the other 90 it would almost certainly be greatly improved by finding someone who could score at least 20 and replacing the man scoring 10 with him. Then you'd have the best opening PARTNERSHIP in history plus 10.

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, we'll be taking a look at batsmen, not partnerships, because we select individuals, not pairs of players.
Opening batsmen though are the only batsmen guaranteed to be batting together in every innings, so it's important for them to form good partnerships. Cook was certainly in excellent form when partnered by Compton, and now with Root he isn't. It may just be a coincidence. Theories have been put forward: Strauss had suggested that Compton's slow scoring had put pressure on Cook to score more quickly and would affect his approach as an opener. Then there was a suggestion that Root scoring more quickly would put pressure on Cook. Either way, Cook is well short of his best at the moment. Presumably as captain Cook had a big influence on the selectors' decision to go with Root? Did he think that if a partnership of 230+ was possible with Compton he and Root would be breaking all records?

But does Cook actually make any decisions as captain of this team?
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Old 10th August 2013, 20:25   #31
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So it's Roots default that Cook is out of form?
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Old 11th August 2013, 09:48   #32
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After the end of the NZ series I probably would have kept Compton in the side, only because Root had played well at 5 and we could have slotted in Bell at 6 where he'd been very successful. The benefit of hindsight is always wonderful as Bell has obviously been by far the most successful player. It is hard to suggest that Compton would have been successful against this Aussie bowling line up and of course it is hard to know how well Bell would have done if relegated that one spot. So hindsight doesn't tell us much one way or the other.

I did think that Root would have to go to opener at some point and I'm not shocked that he's had a hard time. The problem is though that if you talk of potential and the likelihood of improvement in choosing between Root and Compton for opener you'd chose Root and that is what the selectors have done. There are bigger issues for England than that IMO, the no.6 spot and 3rd seamer for sure.
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Old 11th August 2013, 10:40   #33
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There are bigger issues for England than that IMO, the no.6 spot and 3rd seamer for sure.
Those issues just refuse to go away don't they Chin? Bairstow has 3 innings left to make a significant contribution or he will be dropped. He may even be dropped for the Oval, especially if England lose at CLS.

Who gets a go next? Taylor is probably the man but I'm hoping they will give Stokes a go at some point. I certainly hope they don't return to Bopara on the back of his one day form. Morgan is not an option.

I think Steven Finn has been left out of the squad entirely in order for him to get some overs under his belt before the Ashes tour and I expect he or Tremlett to be the third seamer this winter. Bresnan has done Ok this season but I don't think he is up to it any more.

Who would you pick?
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Old 11th August 2013, 10:40   #34
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... There are bigger issues for England than that IMO, the no.6 spot and 3rd seamer for sure.
Perhaps they're all connected. Before Root was promoted to open, England had the no. 6 spot sorted for the first time in years and as a result were arguably approaching a situation where they might dare to pick their best four bowlers.
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Old 11th August 2013, 10:44   #35
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Perhaps they're all connected. Before Root was promoted to open, England had the no. 6 spot sorted for the first time in years and as a result were arguably approaching a situation where they might dare to pick their best four bowlers.
Who do you think are England's best four bowlers Sans?
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Old 11th August 2013, 10:49   #36
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The implication on this thread that Compton deserves some kind of credit for Cook's stellar form in India is, quite frankly, risible. A question for Michelle and Sir Virgs - would you rather have a pair of openers who both average 50 but as a partnership average 45 or a pair of openers who both average 30 but as a partnership average 55?
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Old 11th August 2013, 11:10   #37
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Onions did well in the games he's played and has a fantastic domestic overall and particularly since his injury. He's on form and bowling well I think he'd do well as our third seamer. Bresnan isn't good enough in a three seamer attack and batting is poorer than that of Swann/Broad.

i think taylor and onions would improve the side considerably.
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Old 11th August 2013, 11:39   #38
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The implication on this thread that Compton deserves some kind of credit for Cook's stellar form in India is, quite frankly, risible. A question for Michelle and Sir Virgs - would you rather have a pair of openers who both average 50 but as a partnership average 45 or a pair of openers who both average 30 but as a partnership average 55?
That question does not make sense does it. If you have someone who will dig in bat for ages without actually scoring that many runs then it makes life easier for those coming in. Have you heard the saying "see off the new ball"

Root has not gone beyond 30 once yet this series unless we were 200 in front. Believe me I hope he does second dig.

To argue that compo has no effect on cook is odd. How do you know for sure? Maybe he is a good calming influence/says the right thing. Who knows. Bowlers bowl in partnerships and personally I think batsmen do too. For example if one batsman means they need to pitch it up and the other bowl shorter does this not affect it? When coupled with a left/right a bowler will change line and length.

I would be interested to see the number of singles taken too. Didn't root score about 3 in the first test? So not rotating the strike.

If one batsmen is scoring well the other can dig in. This may mean the oppo captain is incline to set defensive field to one as attack the other.

The list goes on

So all in all saying one batsmen does not effect another is just daft.
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Old 11th August 2013, 12:05   #39
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That question does not make sense does it.
The question makes perfect sense. That you chose not to answer it speaks volumes.
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Old 11th August 2013, 12:15   #40
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Who do you think are England's best four bowlers Sans?
It varies depending on the pitch!
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