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Old 23rd October 2015, 10:53   #81
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Sir Ian Botham is horrible in his views. Some of the things he's saying right now.

Ward: Did Pakistan's batsmen aid England this morning which some questionable shots?
Bothman: I don't honestly care, I only care about England.

Sure he was a great player and has been great for charity, but as a sports pundit he's really starting to **** me off. Dare I say I think he is a closet racist.
Sir Ian is a lot of things (including a terrible commentator and pundit) but I would be shocked to the core of it emerged he was racist.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:01   #82
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England to follow on?
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:02   #83
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Sir Ian is a lot of things (including a terrible commentator and pundit) but I would be shocked to the core of it emerged he was racist.
I think he's more of a chest-thumping patriot, and that's the role he's more or less obliged to play with Sky - in the same way that Willis plays the curmudgeon, Lloyd the comedy Northerner, etc.

Some good lunchtime articles on Sky today....one on the greatest cricketer ever to play the game, another on WG Grace.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:08   #84
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Sir Ian is a lot of things (including a terrible commentator and pundit) but I would be shocked to the core of it emerged he was racist.
I think the latest thinking on the general topic (i.e. not specifically in relation to Sir Ian) is that everyone is more or less racist, and we should assume that that's the case and think about how to deal with it together, and put in place mechanisms that counteract it in practical situations. It's a much more productive approach than the approach which sees racism as an abominable thing that only bad people suffer from, and that people then get very swiftly defensive about, with the assumption being that no one is racist unless proved to be so. Given the way current affairs and British history are generally presented in this country, I would expect to have been brought up effectively to be a racist in a lot of ways, and I would expect the same of e.g. Sir Ian too. I'm trying to deal with it, but I don't get much help from people who are in denial.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:13   #85
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God this lunch break is interminable. An incredibly boring documentary about WG Grace on TMS.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:17   #86
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I think the latest thinking on the general topic (i.e. not specifically in relation to Sir Ian) is that everyone is more or less racist, and we should assume that that's the case and think about how to deal with it together, and put in place mechanisms that counteract it in practical situations. It's a much more productive approach than the approach which sees racism as an abominable thing that only bad people suffer from, and that people then get very swiftly defensive about, with the assumption being that no one is racist unless proved to be so. Given the way current affairs and British history are generally presented in this country, I would expect to have been brought up effectively to be a racist in a lot of ways, and I would expect the same of e.g. Sir Ian too. I'm trying to deal with it, but I don't get much help from people who are in denial.
Excellent. Thanks for the heads up Sans.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:31   #87
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Oh dear. Sounds a bit unlucky there, Moeen.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:33   #88
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Oh dear. Sounds a bit unlucky there, Moeen.
Similar to malik. Worrying for saffer land.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:36   #89
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Oh dear. Sounds a bit unlucky there, Moeen.
Struck quite firmly straight at short leg, a touch above knee high. Again, the commentators going over the top by calling it 'brilliant'.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:43   #90
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Not quite the start England were hoping for. Yes, Moeen was unlucky but the same can also be said for Shoaib Malik.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:46   #91
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The next half hour will be fun on here!
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:46   #92
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Oh dear ... 2 down.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:47   #93
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This is more what we expected from England. Ian Bell is never a test number 3 in a million years. We already know this just like we know he is not a competent slip fielder. What the hell is he doing there? England need to move on.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:47   #94
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Crap, we can't give away wickets before Shah even bowls. I feel this may be Bell's last Test match.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:49   #95
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I think the latest thinking on the general topic (i.e. not specifically in relation to Sir Ian) is that everyone is more or less racist, and we should assume that that's the case and think about how to deal with it together, and put in place mechanisms that counteract it in practical situations. It's a much more productive approach than the approach which sees racism as an abominable thing that only bad people suffer from, and that people then get very swiftly defensive about, with the assumption being that no one is racist unless proved to be so. Given the way current affairs and British history are generally presented in this country, I would expect to have been brought up effectively to be a racist in a lot of ways, and I would expect the same of e.g. Sir Ian too. I'm trying to deal with it, but I don't get much help from people who are in denial.
Unconscious or implicit bias, as it is known. There are some tests online you can take if you want to know your biases. It's more than just about racism, covering sexism, attitude to people with disabilities, fat v skinny, socioeconomic background, happy v sad, tattoos v no-tattoos etc etc.

Of course there are those who are pretty open and honest in their prejudice.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:50   #96
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Crap, we can't give away wickets before Shah even bowls. I feel this may be Bell's last Test match.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:55   #97
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Crap, we can't give away wickets before Shah even bowls. I feel this may be Bell's last Test match.
This is the problem. I did always wonder if we would underestimate Pakistan quickies before the spinners came on. A dangerous mistake.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 11:56   #98
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Crap, we can't give away wickets before Shah even bowls. I feel this may be Bell's last Test match.
No chance Sharky. Didn't you see the 2013 Ashes?
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Old 23rd October 2015, 12:00   #99
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I don't think Sir Ian Botham is a very fair commentator. His bias really stands out when sitting next to David Lloyd, Atherton etc. He really struggles to give the opponents credit.

As for this match, it's very interesting, there is more in it and definitely something for Yasir to work with. Yasir bowled exceptionally well against other sides in recent series and could create some waves.

Haven't seen much reserve swing from England, so I doubt Wahab will get much either.
What on earth are you doing actually listening to Botham's words? Schoolboy error.

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This is the problem. I did always wonder if we would underestimate Pakistan quickies before the spinners came on. A dangerous mistake.
Indeed. That and overestimate our no.3
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 12:02   #100
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familiar problems requiring familiar solutions.

a dead rubber at the Oval was wasted looking for batting back up.
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