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Old 10th September 2017, 12:39   #181
Ali TT
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Did he play all series in India? Given the struggle of all our seamers there and his clear unreadiness for his comeback test I'm not sure too much can be drawn from that, beyond the pleasing symmetry of course.
One big concern other than the general mediocrity of most of his test career would be his injury proneness. He has only played 18/50 tests since making his debut.
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Old 10th September 2017, 14:39   #182
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One big concern other than the general mediocrity of most of his test career would be his injury proneness. He has only played 18/50 tests since making his debut.
I did wonder whether Woakes is a bit like Sidebottom in that they found a bit of nip and then had some decent success, only to find keeping up that pace unsustainable and breaking down with injury. I'll be a bit worried if Woakes is our first change seamer and just floating it up into the middle of Smith's bat this winter, especially if we just have Stokes and Ali backing him up who will need to do a lot of batting. Having TRJ in the team as well would be handy as he bowls a heavier ball and is a bit taller, not quite in the Tremlett mould but a bit like a Stuart Clark.
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Old 10th September 2017, 16:21   #183
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Did he play all series in India? Given the struggle of all our seamers there and his clear unreadiness for his comeback test I'm not sure too much can be drawn from that, beyond the pleasing symmetry of course.
No he missed two of the games (2nd and 5th I think).

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I did wonder whether Woakes is a bit like Sidebottom in that they found a bit of nip and then had some decent success, only to find keeping up that pace unsustainable and breaking down with injury. I'll be a bit worried if Woakes is our first change seamer and just floating it up into the middle of Smith's bat this winter, especially if we just have Stokes and Ali backing him up who will need to do a lot of batting. Having TRJ in the team as well would be handy as he bowls a heavier ball and is a bit taller, not quite in the Tremlett mould but a bit like a Stuart Clark.
It's not going to happen but if our seam attack is Broad/Anderson/Woakes and Stokes I'd rather Woakes opened the bowling with Anderson as he can find some swing if there is any and Broad as first change. Broad is no better with the new ball than a slightly older one so there doesn't seem much point him bowling with the new one when there are bowlers that can get it to move a bit.
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Old 18th September 2017, 14:05   #184
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No he missed two of the games (2nd and 5th I think).



It's not going to happen but if our seam attack is Broad/Anderson/Woakes and Stokes I'd rather Woakes opened the bowling with Anderson as he can find some swing if there is any and Broad as first change. Broad is no better with the new ball than a slightly older one so there doesn't seem much point him bowling with the new one when there are bowlers that can get it to move a bit.
I wouldn't be opposed to this.
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Old 18th September 2017, 14:38   #185
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...Broad is no better with the new ball than a slightly older one so there doesn't seem much point him bowling with the new one when there are bowlers that can get it to move a bit.
Yes, Broad has been wasting the new ball for years.
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Old 11th August 2018, 21:44   #186
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He's done okay, yes. Think he needs a test hundred to be taken seriously as an all rounder though really.
And take his bowling average down a little.
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Old 11th August 2018, 21:49   #187
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And take his bowling average down a little.
Kim would have been truly thrilled. He reckoned that Woakes would end up making a better batsman than bowler. That hasnít really happened, and at 29, isnít going to happen.

I am sure he will have the opportunity to lower his bowling average this series. I wouldnít bet on it improving if he has to play overseas again.
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Old 11th August 2018, 23:23   #188
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Old 12th August 2018, 21:03   #189
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Never really considered Woakes an all-rounder, not strong enough batting even if he has made a hundred in this Test.

He has made 9 FC hundreds, but in 136 matches and that's against county level opposition. He may well make more in domestic cricket than say Hadlee did, 14 in 342 matches, but has to go some to match Botham with 38 from 402 or even (Craig) White with 21 in 275

Not all about hundreds granted, and he is as arguably a #7 as he is a #8, but let's not lose track of a Test average boosted by 1 not out for every 4 innings played.....

I believe that knock took him to 1000 runs in Tests, an average of around 32 but only 25 runs per innings which you can argue is down to his batting #8 and #9. To give him credit he has batted #6 and scored 105 runs in 3 innings, and now his FIRST time batting #7

Definitely think he could open the bowling, just worried if he isn't moving the ball he's too medium fast and could be horses for courses. Could easily be the pick of the options to go with Broad, Anderson and Stokes giving a middle-lower order of eg

Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Curran
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Shame the top order is still a bit suspect++++
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Old 13th August 2018, 01:14   #190
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Never really considered Woakes an all-rounder, not strong enough batting even if he has made a hundred in this Test.

He has made 9 FC hundreds, but in 136 matches and that's against county level opposition. He may well make more in domestic cricket than say Hadlee did, 14 in 342 matches, but has to go some to match Botham with 38 from 402 or even (Craig) White with 21 in 275

Not all about hundreds granted, and he is as arguably a #7 as he is a #8, but let's not lose track of a Test average boosted by 1 not out for every 4 innings played.....

I believe that knock took him to 1000 runs in Tests, an average of around 32 but only 25 runs per innings which you can argue is down to his batting #8 and #9. To give him credit he has batted #6 and scored 105 runs in 3 innings, and now his FIRST time batting #7
He was very much a late bloomer as far as his batting goes which is strange as on the international stage he's always looked a "proper" batsman except against the short ball.

We're not exactly short of #7's though, half our team would seem to fit in best at 6,7 or 8.
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Old 13th August 2018, 11:38   #191
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Woakes has long shown signs of being ideal for the pivotal #8 batting role. Like his predecessor, Bresnan, he is able to adapt his batting to the needs of the situation. In between, no other player has shown this ability at #8. Now, though, I'd say he could be relied on to bat regularly at #7 or even #6.

The only question mark against his bowling is his tendency to suffer injury. When fit, he bowls at decent pace and with great accuracy.
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Old 13th August 2018, 12:06   #192
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Old 13th August 2018, 12:55   #193
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Kim would have been truly thrilled. He reckoned that Woakes would end up making a better batsman than bowler. That hasnít really happened, and at 29, isnít going to happen. ...
I reckon it could, actually. Between the ages of 30 and 35, generally, batsmen tend to improve more than do pace bowlers.
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Old 13th August 2018, 13:22   #194
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I reckon it could, actually. Between the ages of 30 and 35, generally, batsmen tend to improve more than do pace bowlers.
To really be a true international batsman? I don't think he has it overall. He had a pretty dreadful time with the bat in India and Australia so I think he has quite a lot of work to do on that front. Although to be honest, he is similarly poor with the ball too in those countries.
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Old 13th August 2018, 13:40   #195
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To really be a true international batsman? I don't think he has it overall. He had a pretty dreadful time with the bat in India and Australia so I think he has quite a lot of work to do on that front. Although to be honest, he is similarly poor with the ball too in those countries.
England don't tour either for tests until 2021 though so a while before then, by far his main weakness in batting is playing of the short ball irrespective of conditions.
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Old 13th August 2018, 13:40   #196
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We pick different bowling attacks for different countries. Maybe we should be more radical. Look at some of our options to play home matches.

Player 1 - batting average 54 (595 runs) and bowling 23 (50 wickets)
Player 2 - batting average 39 (1549 runs) bowling 33 (82 wickets)
Player 3 - batting average 33 (1076 runs) bowling 33 (50 wickets)

Which two should be the two selected from this?
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Old 13th August 2018, 13:44   #197
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We pick different bowling attacks for different countries. Maybe we should be more radical. Look at some of our options to play home matches.

Player 1 - batting average 54 (595 runs) and bowling 23 (50 wickets)
Player 2 - batting average 39 (1549 runs) bowling 33 (82 wickets)
Player 3 - batting average 33 (1076 runs) bowling 33 (50 wickets)

Which two should be the two selected from this?
We know you'd have no hesitation in selection based upon figures alone but most would need a little more information to go on.
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Old 13th August 2018, 13:45   #198
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We know you'd have no hesitation in selection based upon figures alone but most would need a little more information to go on.
Decent fielder
Poor(ish) fielder
Exceptional fielder
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Old 13th August 2018, 13:51   #199
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Recent form.
Some context in which to view performances.

Perhaps more even than these.
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Old 13th August 2018, 14:32   #200
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I wouldn't take him on the Sri Lanka tour, those dry dusty spin friendly pitches out there with the hot sun baring down on it all day means there wont be swing or seam. The same problem will happen as in the Ashes with Woakes, especially as his bowling is not particular fast either.
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