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#101 | |
Established International
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,000
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Quote:
Batting where is there are times when a breezy 30 isn't needed and it would be far better if he could play defensively and stick around. If England are 100-5 and he comes in smashing 30 off 30 balls isn't needed. |
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#102 | |
Posting God
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,505
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Quote:
He did well during the ashes and played decent knocks in all 3 of our wins. You probably need to accept this. |
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#103 | |
Established International
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,000
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Quote:
However, if a batsman scores a magnificent century in their second Test you wouldn't expect them to go nearly two years without coming close to scoring another. |
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#104 |
International Material
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,852
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Its not really surprising Ali's batting average has got worse as batting at 8 he will always have to play with the tail. The experiment with him as an opener shouldn't count as it was clearly doomed to fail. As a batsman he plays a role because over the last 12 months its been 6 - 11 who have dug us out of a hole and he has been a significant part of that. He's clearly in the side while we are trying to find a better spinner. Its harsh to judge him on the UAe as the opposition all played spin pretty well. In South Africa he has done a job, but not excelled, but he does allow us to play 4 quicks and hasn't really been carted around the park. The bottom line is we probably would only be one up without him.
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#105 | |
Established International
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,000
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#106 |
International Material
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,852
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The reason given for him moving to 6 was that the management thought Stokes batted too irresponsibly further down the order. At the time Ali had the higher average (as he also did during the Ashes). Its fair play to Stokes that he's made 6 his own. But the value of someone like Ali is he hasn't sulked, gets on with the job no matter where he's put in the order. I'm not saying he is a world beater but I think the value he adds to the team is more than some people credit. How many tests he plays depends on the development of other spin bowling options.
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#107 | |
World Class
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge
Team(s): England
Posts: 7,363
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Quote:
His test career after 22 tests INNINGS 36 RUNS 878 AVERAGE 26.60 HIGH SCORE 108* 100s 1 50s 4 WICKETS 62 AVERAGE 38.40 ECONOMY 3.68 SR 62.61 5WS 1
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#108 |
World Class
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge
Team(s): England
Posts: 7,363
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Tim Bresnan
MATCHES 23 INNINGS 26 RUNS 575 AVERAGE 26.13 HIGH SCORE 91 100s 0 50s 3 MATCHES 23 INNINGS 41 WICKETS 72 AVERAGE 32.73 ECONOMY 3.02 SR 64.91 5WS 1
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#109 | |
Posting God
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,505
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Quote:
Tuffers 93 with same average Giles 85 and mo better average Monty 74 with a slightly better average than mo but crap bat and fielder Swann 60 with a better average and he was good slip. So his strike rate is miles better than other spinners but marginally worse than Swann. So how bad are the others? |
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#110 | |
Posting God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 10,989
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#111 |
Posting God
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,505
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#112 | |
World Class
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge
Team(s): England
Posts: 7,363
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Quote:
Sir Phil - 5 5fers in 42 test (no DRS) Monty - 12! 5fers in 50 tests (no DRS) Swann - 17 !! 5fers in 60 tests
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#113 |
Self Confessed Mentalist
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 42
Posts: 43,854
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So were you obsessed with the utility of numbers of 5 wicket hauls for judging bowlers before you became obsessed with Moeen or after?
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Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde |
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#114 | |
Self Confessed Mentalist
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 42
Posts: 43,854
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Quote:
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde |
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#115 | |
Legendary
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Yorkshire CCC & England, Wakefield Trinity RLFC, Leeds Carnegie RUFC
Posts: 9,842
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Quote:
I suppose they are the bowling equivalents of centuries - impressive, perhaps, when viewed in isolation but not telling the full story. |
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#116 |
Self Confessed Mentalist
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 42
Posts: 43,854
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If anything a 5 wicket haul is probably a worse surrogate for performance than centuries for various reasons, particularly that with 10 wickets to be taken per innings at most, the capacity to get 5 of them is quite dependent on a player's bowling role, including when he gets to bowl and how many other bowlers there are. Giles was usually one of five but the others were more usually parts of four man attacks so more likely to get the opportunity to take five wickets. It's also clearly the case that even a relatively bad bowling performance can be rewarded with 5 wickets, due to a combination of luck and attrition (given that even when sides score a lot of runs, they usually lose at least several wickets and often all 10 in doing so). Of course some centuries are better than others too.
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Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde |
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#117 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 28,602
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Quote:
It was only when he later re-emerged (under Fletcher, D) that it was as a bowler who could bat a bit. Although he wasn't worth his place the first time round so maybe that shouldn't count. I actually think he's one of the most underrated England players of the last couple of decades. Was a key member of that great England team who won in Pakistan and Sri Lanka and was the first one to beat West Indies since 1969 but is all but forgotten.
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#118 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: la sala de opinion equivocada
Team(s): ****
Posts: 24,637
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#119 | |
Posting God
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,258
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Quote:
Mo has a different role. I doubt he'll take many five wicket hauls - he lacks control and enough variation to really put prolonged pressure on a batting side even in good conditions. However he is nipping out big wickets from time to time and he's contributing to victories. Oddly I'd expect his average to fall but his s/r to rise over time. Oh, and there's still none better who could take his place.
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WARNING Reading the above post may cause bouts of nausea. |
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#120 |
Posting God
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,505
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Mo has a better average than Swann in the fourth innings. It is not his fault he is playing at the same time as England's two leading wicket takers (which they will be) plus Finn who has a phenomenal strike rate and it is very rare that he bowls last.
In quite a few innings he has not bowled until 4 or five wickets have gone. What I am saying is that for many reasons jock's obsession is bizarre. Monty must surely be the ultimate crap track bully given all those five fers and as near and dammit same average. |
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