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Old 18th September 2017, 19:29   #61
JRC67
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Bairstow always said he wanted to keep even when first selected to bat. That's a big difference to ABdeV and Sangakara he were forced to keep and were lessened as batsmen. There is a big psychological difference. The biggest argument against him keeping was he used to be below average. He's now a decent keeper.

As a batsman he'd struggle above 5 because the bottom hand still closes the face of the bat. He's averaged 40 plus since keeping. I don't think he's ever going to be in the very top tier as a batsman whether he gives up the gloves or not. Maybe an extra couple of runs an innings. At the moment he's had one stratospheric year, one average and three poor years. I suspect if he keeps the gloves he will end as one of our 5 best keepers, personally I don't think he'll ever quite make it as one of the top 25 batsmen.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 11:06   #62
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Bairstow's fellow Yorkshiremen Vaughan and Boycott have been pretty damming in their assessment of his performance. The former claims he is sulking at having had the gloves taken off him, while the latter says he's not good enough to bat above 7 in Tests.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 11:26   #63
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He needs a spell out of the side, last time he was axed he went away and scored stacks of runs, making it impossible to leave him out.

The contrast between his white ball game and red ball games are stark at the minute. In white ball cricket he looks almost impossible to bowl at, can score all around the ground at a rapid pace.

In Tests... I’d fancy my chances of dismissing him right now.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 11:46   #64
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He needs a rest. See also Root.

You can only play all formats for so long before you get worn down. Give him until Christmas off.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 12:24   #65
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Im definitely happiest with Bairstow at 7. Hes never really excelled anywhere else, his technical weaknesses seem to be exposed more often and it suits his natural game - hes proved very good at batting with the tail.

The trouble is, with Root seemingly insistent that he wants to be at 4, then 5 & 6 are the only available spots (assuming we have an actual #3 in at 3) and if England want Buttler, Stokes and Moeen in the side then there is limited room for them unless Mo is played at 8, Curran at 9 and no other spinner picked. Stokes is the one Id trust most to bat higher up but I dont think he can play 3 (although if he became a part time bowler he might be able to). Buttler has been the best batsman of the summer in the side - do you treat him like other batsmen who have done well for England and ask him to move up the order? Whoever we have at 6-8 will tend to do well there but long-term one of that group probably has to be left out of the side for it to actually be a batting unit rather than a shoehorned collection of individuals.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 14:24   #66
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Bairstow's fellow Yorkshiremen Vaughan and Boycott have been pretty damming in their assessment of his performance. The former claims he is sulking at having had the gloves taken off him, while the latter says he's not good enough to bat above 7 in Tests.
I need to point out for the 94th time that motormouth rentagob Vaughan is not a Yorkshireman. He was born in Eccles. I cannot understand why nobody has smacked him in his obnoxious loose mouth.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 15:56   #67
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I need to point out for the 94th time that motormouth rentagob Vaughan is not a Yorkshireman. He was born in Eccles. I cannot understand why nobody has smacked him in his obnoxious loose mouth.
He's become the natural successor to Botham.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 17:12   #68
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I need to point out for the 94th time that motormouth rentagob Vaughan is not a Yorkshireman. He was born in Eccles. I cannot understand why nobody has smacked him in his obnoxious loose mouth.
Given that he grew up in Yorkshire, played his cricket in Yorkshire for club and county and sounds like a Yorkshireman, such distinctions are lost on us Southrons.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 17:16   #69
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Given that he grew up in Yorkshire, played his cricket in Yorkshire for club and county and sounds like a Yorkshireman, such distinctions are lost on us Southrons.
Advertised Yorkshire Tea as well. I've heard that Bairstow is a bit of a prickly character and not the most popular, but I can't really see him having a tantrum over this, unless they've told him it will be permanent.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 17:48   #70
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Advertised Yorkshire Tea as well. I've heard that Bairstow is a bit of a prickly character and not the most popular, but I can't really see him having a tantrum over this, unless they've told him it will be permanent.
He certainly put the hard yards in on the boundary today. Touched the ball about as often as Buttler

I expect Yorkshireman Vaughan is talking out of his Yorkshire arse.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 01:14   #71
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Im definitely happiest with Bairstow at 7. Hes never really excelled anywhere else, his technical weaknesses seem to be exposed more often and it suits his natural game - hes proved very good at batting with the tail.

The trouble is, with Root seemingly insistent that he wants to be at 4, then 5 & 6 are the only available spots (assuming we have an actual #3 in at 3) and if England want Buttler, Stokes and Moeen in the side then there is limited room for them unless Mo is played at 8, Curran at 9 and no other spinner picked. Stokes is the one Id trust most to bat higher up but I dont think he can play 3 (although if he became a part time bowler he might be able to). Buttler has been the best batsman of the summer in the side - do you treat him like other batsmen who have done well for England and ask him to move up the order? Whoever we have at 6-8 will tend to do well there but long-term one of that group probably has to be left out of the side for it to actually be a batting unit rather than a shoehorned collection of individuals.
Yes I like Bairstow at 7 as well and with the gloves. I think he will get the gloves back at the Oval. Buttler will have to move up the order.

Bayliss has to accept Root is better at 4 and Bairstow at 7. Both have done their best in their right positions.

Hope Ed Smith isn't involved in the batting positions.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 01:17   #72
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Originally Posted by Comte Nom de Plume View Post
I need to point out for the 94th time that motormouth rentagob Vaughan is not a Yorkshireman. He was born in Eccles. I cannot understand why nobody has smacked him in his obnoxious loose mouth.
And furthermore Vaughan is the great nephew of Lancashire and England legends Ernest and Johnny Tyldesley. There used to be a Tyldesley Suite at Old Trafford before the ground was updated.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 11:52   #73
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Given that he grew up in Yorkshire, played his cricket in Yorkshire for club and county and sounds like a Yorkshireman, such distinctions are lost on us Southrons.
There are a few people I would be happy to have bestowed upon them an honorary Yorkshiremanship. Sachin Tendulkar and Bill Bryson (a lover of the Yorkshire Dales and a keen observer of cricket - see below) immediately spring to mind.

http://www.wandererscricket.com/Yank_view.html

However, I'd never consider Vaughan a worthy recipient of such an accolade.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 12:02   #74
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I need to point out for the 94th time that motormouth rentagob Vaughan is not a Yorkshireman. He was born in Eccles. I cannot understand why nobody has smacked him in his obnoxious loose mouth.
In this day and age you can choose to self identify as anything you like.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 12:13   #75
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However, I'd never consider Vaughan a worthy recipient of such an accolade.
Have you always thought that way? When he captained England to Ashes victory in 2005 or when he was the best batsman in the world, or is it more the results of his retagob antics on TMS and in the papers?
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Old 3rd September 2018, 12:39   #76
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Never rated Vaughan highly as a player, especially in ODIs where he once took 23 deliveries to get off the mark against South Africa in a World Cup match in the West Indies.

Test captaincy meant he was a bit of a passenger for much of the latter part of his test career and we were a bit lucky in 2005.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 13:37   #77
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Test captaincy meant he was a bit of a passenger for much of the latter part of his test career and we were a bit lucky in 2005.
Thought we were unlucky not to win 4-1. Aussies escaped at Old Trafford and rain saved them at The Oval.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 14:27   #78
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Some would say McGrath's injury, particularly the manner of it, was a huge slice of good luck. Hardly anybody would disagree that the dismissal of Kasprowicz (I think, and not certain of the spelling either) was crucial, yet according to the laws of the game should never have happened.

Had it not happened, I think the Aussies would have been 2-0 up and probably unassailable.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 14:54   #79
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Some would say McGrath's injury, particularly the manner of it, was a huge slice of good luck. Hardly anybody would disagree that the dismissal of Kasprowicz (I think, and not certain of the spelling either) was crucial, yet according to the laws of the game should never have happened.

Had it not happened, I think the Aussies would have been 2-0 up and probably unassailable.
Hardly anybody would disagree that had Billy Bowden been even a remotely average umpire instead of a total show pony, Kasprowicz would have been given out plumb lbw a long time before it got close. A shame he had to make up for that glaring error with another one.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 14:56   #80
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LBW decisions are a little less clear cut, especially those the memory of which has been dimmed by time.

Any road up, not even sure we had "Hawkeye" then to support that opinion or, if we did, how accurate it was back then.
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