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Old 4th March 2009, 14:47   #161
Arachibutyrophobic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
A marathon is probably going a bit far.

Ramnaresh Sarwan in the last test scored 291, which is the equivalent of running 6402 yards. Obviously he had to run his partners runs as well and the West Indies total was the equivalent of just over 15,000m. That was also having been in the field for 2 days and doing much leather chasing.

Whilst they won't have run all 749 runs, only a few shots will they have been able to stand and admire without running to the other end. Even if Sarwan ran a single and it went for four, he'd have to jog back to the other end, so he'd still end up running half of the runs scored off boundaries.

You need good physical fitness to be able to bat for long periods of time. When the body tires it is harder to concentrate. Samit Patel's top score is almost half Sarwan's top-score.

Besides concentration and physical fitness, I believe to succeed at the highest level you also need dedication. You have to want it. The most worrying aspect to this is that it suggests Patel doesn't want it badly enough.

I hope this is the wake-up call he needs. Flintoff needed several, but eventually it clicked and he became a top class international. I hope the same happens with Samit Patel and I'll be listening eagerly to reports to see how he reacts to this situation.
He didn't have to run the 132 which came in boundaries. The total distance would have been much less than you quote (I know you touch on that later in the post) and over a VERY long period of time. Mental strength and concentration are, in my opinion, much more important than being in perfect physical condition.

Last edited by Arachibutyrophobic : 4th March 2009 at 15:00.
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Old 4th March 2009, 14:58   #162
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Originally Posted by Arachibutyrophobic View Post
He didn't have to run the 132 which came in boundaries.
Maybe if you had some extra physical fitness, you could have concentrated long enough to read my entire post?
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Old 4th March 2009, 15:12   #163
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Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
Maybe if you had some extra physical fitness, you could have concentrated long enough to read my entire post?
Where you say he would have had to run 15,000 metres and then suggest it wouldn't be anything like that?
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Old 4th March 2009, 15:50   #164
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He could do with dropping a fair few pounds - FACT.

I've never understood how professional sportsmen can play whilst being so unfit, especially in this modern age. They have all the facilities, training, advice available to them, you have to just wonder how much effort they're willing to put in themselves?!

Lets hope he does it, feels the benefit and comes back better for it.
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:02   #165
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He could do with dropping a fair few pounds - FACT.

I've never understood how professional sportsmen can play whilst being so unfit, especially in this modern age. They have all the facilities, training, advice available to them, you have to just wonder how much effort they're willing to put in themselves?!

Lets hope he does it, feels the benefit and comes back better for it.
I seem to remember that Mr Botham was a bit beefy during some parts of his England career.
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:14   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arachibutyrophobic View Post
He didn't have to run the 132 which came in boundaries. The total distance would have been much less than you quote (I know you touch on that later in the post) and over a VERY long period of time. Mental strength and concentration are, in my opinion, much more important than being in perfect physical condition.
But batsmen have to start running before the ball reaches the boundary in most cases. As gbg says, not all fours are of the "stand and admire" variety, and you have to run back again. And do the same for your partner's boundaries as well as runs. I also think that being out there batting for a long time even if not doing a lot of running requires energy and stamina as well as the mental strength and concentration you mention. Shah is a batsman who has experienced problems with cramps, heat exhaustion etc so maybe he needs to look at his fitness a bit more closely.

I think it's quite right that Samit has been given this wake-up call now. He has apparently failed a few fitness tests and been given warnings. Being dropped from the squad should concentrate his mind if he is serious about international cricket.

As for Harmison and Sidebottom, you do wonder if there are different rules for the "star" players - but injuries are different from actual fitness. All the England players have to do those bleep tests etc. Don't they?
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:30   #167
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But batsmen have to start running before the ball reaches the boundary in most cases. As gbg says, not all fours are of the "stand and admire" variety, and you have to run back again. And do the same for your partner's boundaries as well as runs. I also think that being out there batting for a long time even if not doing a lot of running requires energy and stamina as well as the mental strength and concentration you mention. Shah is a batsman who has experienced problems with cramps, heat exhaustion etc so maybe he needs to look at his fitness a bit more closely.

I think it's quite right that Samit has been given this wake-up call now. He has apparently failed a few fitness tests and been given warnings. Being dropped from the squad should concentrate his mind if he is serious about international cricket.

As for Harmison and Sidebottom, you do wonder if there are different rules for the "star" players - but injuries are different from actual fitness. All the England players have to do those bleep tests etc. Don't they?
I am not saying that it is a good thing that a players are not as fit as they could be and Samit does appear to have spent a fair few lunch times walking straight past the salad counter and heading straight for the pork pies. I do wonder, however, if it sometimes overrides more important considerations. A fast bowler needs to be in pretty good shape. A spin bowler less so. A batsman somewhere in between. I am not sure that making everyone jump through the same hoops is necessarily a good thing.
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:32   #168
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Originally Posted by Arachibutyrophobic View Post
He didn't have to run the 132 which came in boundaries. The total distance would have been much less than you quote (I know you touch on that later in the post) and over a VERY long period of time. Mental strength and concentration are, in my opinion, much more important than being in perfect physical condition.
Does not a good physical condition aid concentration? When I'm physically tired, I know I'm not as mentally sharp.

Nasser Hussain was also commenting the other day about how someone - I think it was actually Sarwan - had been working physically hard and was saying how that helped him mentally. Hussain reckoned it gave him an edge knowing that he'd done all the work he was told to, and then some extra.

As for the total distance run, MF has already answered it.

I'm really quite surprised that so many are advocating someone not doing their all to be the best they could be (edit: not Arachibutyrophobic, having seen his last post). I'm equally surprised so many of you are Notts fans, when your county has been suggesting the same thing to him!
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:36   #169
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The modern game requires a much higher level of reaction in the field and with the bat. It's bad enough when you have to hide someone in the field because of inferior fielding skills but to concede runs because an unfit fielder is lumbering about is not acceptable.
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:40   #170
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Anyone who has trained hard for any physical challenge needing some endurance will tell you it makes them mentally stronger. You have to go through the pain barrier and keep going.

One day cricket (later in the innings) often involves every ball being scored off which means lots of running. You will then need to focus quickly on the next ball. You have very little recovery time between deliveries. Fitness can only help with this. It is a no brainer. He has a great talent but i fear he may like his food a bit too much.

That said Fred was dropped for being a fat lad and came back and destroyed the aussies so who knows!
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:40   #171
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If he has been warned about it before then he only has himself to blame. Hopefully it will be the jerk out of complacency that he needs.
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:40   #172
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It seems a bit harsh, but time may tell us that it's good man management - or not. I wish they'd be as tough with the untouchable inner circle (OK, I don't really think there is such a thing, but players like Harmison and Vaughan seem to get preferential treatment long after they've stopped performing near their best).
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:41   #173
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If he has been warned about it before then he only has himself to blame. Hopefully it will be the jerk out of complacency that he needs.
Yes, people should always take note of warnings.
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:43   #174
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Yes he is fat but his first class record is among the best of English players. I'd much rather have a fat player in the team who is a good player than a fit one who is crap.
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:45   #175
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Yes he is fat but his first class record is among the best of English players. I'd much rather have a fat player in the team who is a good player than a fit one who is crap.
But ODI cricket requires great agility in the field as well as good batting and good bowling. And this is the form he is picked for right now, ODI cricket. Especially in the hot weather of West Indies.
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:46   #176
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Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
Does not a good physical condition aid concentration? When I'm physically tired, I know I'm not as mentally sharp.

Nasser Hussain was also commenting the other day about how someone - I think it was actually Sarwan - had been working physically hard and was saying how that helped him mentally. Hussain reckoned it gave him an edge knowing that he'd done all the work he was told to, and then some extra.

As for the total distance run, MF has already answered it.

I'm really quite surprised that so many are advocating someone not doing their all to be the best they could be (edit: not Arachibutyrophobic, having seen his last post). I'm equally surprised so many of you are Notts fans, when your county has been suggesting the same thing to him!
We got promoted latgely by being very fit. Giles' view was that most counties limp through the tape at the end of the year season and he wanted us to burst through it. Which we did. The fitness also meant virtually no, other than impact, injuries all year
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:51   #177
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
That said Fred was dropped for being a fat lad and came back and destroyed the aussies so who knows!
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Originally Posted by Mr Popodopolous View Post
If he has been warned about it before then he only has himself to blame. Hopefully it will be the jerk out of complacency that he needs.
What Samit Patel needs is a new agent. He should sign up with Neil Fairbrother's company who were the ones who set Flintoff right.
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:52   #178
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Originally Posted by slowest_bowler View Post
It seems a bit harsh, but time may tell us that it's good man management - or not. I wish they'd be as tough with the untouchable inner circle (OK, I don't really think there is such a thing, but players like Harmison and Vaughan seem to get preferential treatment long after they've stopped performing near their best).
Harmison was sent home from Bangladesh, that was IIRC when he went and worked with Newcastle and turned himself into a top bowler.

He has been dropped several times since then.

Quote:
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Yes he is fat but his first class record is among the best of English players. I'd much rather have a fat player in the team who is a good player than a fit one who is crap.
I'd much rather we got the fat player fit and then in the team.
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Old 4th March 2009, 16:57   #179
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If they are dropping unfit players, what about Sidebottom?
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Old 4th March 2009, 17:01   #180
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If they are dropping unfit players, what about Sidebottom?
He'll be dropped as well.
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