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Old 12th June 2017, 14:20   #1
mustardcharlie
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The ICC Champions Trophy 2017 Semi-finals + Final Thread

England v Pak (hoping SL can do it but ...) seems almost nailed on. India v Bangla is. We all know the vagaries of cricket but I am going to presume Pak will win this one. They are on different days, so shall we just have one SF thread?
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Old 12th June 2017, 14:48   #2
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yeah keep one
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Old 12th June 2017, 23:00   #3
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Thanks Billy. Your profile doesn't say much about you, so who do you think will win the tournament and who would you like to win it. I go for England on both counts but as seen at the Rose Bowl they can have their "bad day at the office" too. Bangla have done really well so far, but they have to be rank outsiders. Pak could easily upset Eng if they have a bad day. On paper Eng or India should win it. It would be a shame if any game were won or lost on the toss/weather though.
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Old 13th June 2017, 00:58   #4
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I think England will win it although the Pakistan match is not a guaranteed win. I

In terns if who I want to win I'd say Pakistan but no problem with England either as I'm a fan of both.

In terms of the underdog story I like Bangladesh.

I just can't stand the smarmy India side so would hate to see the win it, especially if I have to sit through Ganguly talk endlessly about how amazing their bowling line up is.

Having said all that, I was not expecting the tournament to turn out like this at all and all 3 Asian sides have surprised me. Pakistan crushed sa, so called numero unos in odis, India did the same and Bangladesh produced the best batting performance of the ct. Good on them.
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Old 13th June 2017, 01:58   #5
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The thing I like about the current England team is their total an utter lack of ruth. (again the red squiggly line. "Ruth" is a word not just a girl's name). The domination achieved by Oz and WIndies in the past was not entirely because the brilliance of their players. It was because they showed no compassion. In cricket you have to be ruthless. When you have a side down, you do not take your foot off the throat (I think you all know that I don't mean that in a physical sense). I have seen Eng sides lose too often when the game was theirs for the taking. I do not see that in any of the England sides atm. They should still be seething about 26/6 at the Rose Bowl, especially with a test series coming up against the Saffers (No such thing as a dead rubber). Maybe a tad off topic. England expects every man to do his duty. If they fail against India, Pak or Bang, I'll not condemn them.
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Old 13th June 2017, 02:40   #6
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Billy
I remember how Punter got that cut on his cheek. Unfortunately the team of '05 sort of fizzled out. (I think Eng lost the test. I must watch it again). Think Oz fans would agree that their team of '05 would p*** on their current team from a great height and could probably still do 12 years later. The return series was a disaster. Eng didn't go on to achieve much more. I think England are a better all round side now than they have ever been in my lifetime. They should win this tournament. But we all know how Eng can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Old 13th June 2017, 07:48   #7
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I think India will be just too strong for Bangladesh, if Bangladesh are to win their semi they'll need India to be well below par as they tend to only be able to perform in spurts.

England-Pakistan depends on which England and which Pakistan turns up. I suspect England will not make any unenforced changes, Ball and Roy could easily be taken out and potentially improve England's prospects, whilst Pakistan may not have convincingly won the games that saw them through, but have shown grit and determination after collapsing in a heap against India.

If England or India bat first and post 290+ I'm unconvinced their opponents will chase the runs down. Sure Bangladesh chased 266 from a position of 33/4 but that was around 30 runs less (pressure) than I'm talking about, and not against a particularly convincing bowling attack (overall).

Recent ODI head to head records

ENG vs PAK - England have won the last FIVE ODIs against Pakistan in England, and NINE of the last 11. The two Pakistan wins were low scorers, both under 270 and Pakistan defending to win by 23 and 38 runs

IND vs BAN - India lead 5-3 in their last nine head to heads, before that India had won eight in a row. When Bangladesh beat India in the 2007 World Cup they bowled India out for 191 and won by 5 wickets, of their three most recent wins one was scoring around 200, but a couple of bigger scores of 289+


India and England (as hosts) have to be favourites, but then who would have thought their opponents would even get through the groups so surprises are around. Then again didn't someone say England shouldn't host this competition......?
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Old 13th June 2017, 07:53   #8
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You'd think England and India should get through comfortably but both Bangladesh and Pakistan have a puncher's chance this week.

If England get to the final can they overcome the demons that have seen them choke in the past two major finals they've reached? We have a history of throwing away winning positions going back at least to the WC Final in '92.
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Old 13th June 2017, 08:19   #9
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You'd think England and India should get through comfortably but both Bangladesh and Pakistan have a puncher's chance this week.

If England get to the final can they overcome the demons that have seen them choke in the past two major finals they've reached? We have a history of throwing away winning positions going back at least to the WC Final in '92.
So no picking any Saffer born or Somerset players (oh well not any of the latter to worry about) then! I guess that means Roy has to be dropped.
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Old 13th June 2017, 16:31   #10
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Billy
I remember how Punter got that cut on his cheek. Unfortunately the team of '05 sort of fizzled out. (I think Eng lost the test. I must watch it again). Think Oz fans would agree that their team of '05 would p*** on their current team from a great height and could probably still do 12 years later. The return series was a disaster. Eng didn't go on to achieve much more. I think England are a better all round side now than they have ever been in my lifetime. They should win this tournament. But we all know how Eng can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Yep, for that series, England were an exceptional side but they did not managet o build on it, with an absolute thrashing at the hands of Pakistan. I do believe the best England test side was the one from around 09 to probably 12.

In terms of ODI cricket, this is easily the best side England have ever had, just imagine if KP was still around and Freddy was born a few years later. Heck, imagine if Broad and Jimmy were younger, fitter and more likely to be picked in ODIs.

Imagine this line up:

1. Hales
2. KP
3. Root
4. Morgan c
5. Buttler wk
6. Flintoff
7. Stokes
8. Ali
9. Broad
10. Rashid
11. Anderson

We could even have a few floating batsmen who could move up and down the order depending upon the situation. That is an ODI side to rival any in the last 15 years.
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Old 13th June 2017, 16:56   #11
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... That is an ODI side to rival any in the last 15 years.
If your fantasy team were to play against England they'd lose, because 7 of their players are contracted to the oppo and so they'd have to play with just 4 players. They might score a few runs but they're likely to have a problem bowling their full allocation.
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Old 14th June 2017, 07:36   #12
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Originally Posted by billyguntheballs View Post
Imagine this line up:

1. Hales
2. KP
3. Root
4. Morgan c
5. Buttler wk
6. Flintoff
7. Stokes
8. Ali
9. Broad
10. Rashid
11. Anderson

We could even have a few floating batsmen who could move up and down the order depending upon the situation. That is an ODI side to rival any in the last 15 years.
You can "imagine" / dream up that line up and leave out Swann.........
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Old 14th June 2017, 07:41   #13
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You'd think England and India should get through comfortably but both Bangladesh and Pakistan have a puncher's chance this week.

If England get to the final can they overcome the demons that have seen them choke in the past two major finals they've reached? We have a history of throwing away winning positions going back at least to the WC Final in '92.
WC 1992 being the last time England punched their weight in a World Cup.

At least England have shown signs they are going to put sense before all else with the likely dropping of Roy, if it isn't already formally confirmed.

England should do well, good chance of scoring 300+ if they bat first, although Pakistan have won both twice by restricting their opponents to under 250 and chasing down the target.

England haven't been too bad chasing themselves, somewhat higher targets and defended 310 so form might just favour England although they haven't faced a bowling attack quite like Pakistan's yet.
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Old 14th June 2017, 09:37   #14
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Lovely day for it ...
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Old 14th June 2017, 09:51   #15
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WC 1992 being the last time England punched their weight in a World Cup.

England should do well, good chance of scoring 300+ if they bat first, although Pakistan have won both twice by restricting their opponents to under 250 and chasing down the target.

England haven't been too bad chasing themselves, somewhat higher targets and defended 310 so form might just favour England although they haven't faced a bowling attack quite like Pakistan's yet.
Might fancy England to defend less than 250 against this Pakistan batting line up. Sri Lanka would have done it if they had held their catches and England have a better bowling attack.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:08   #16
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Lovely day for it ...
Pity about the venue.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:35   #17
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JB in the Moeen Ali hospital pass suicide by the selectors opener role.


Survives an early scare...
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:40   #18
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They're playing on a used pitch. how did that happen? suspect a fix.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:42   #19
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Amir out. That is a big bonus for England.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:50   #20
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JB in the Moeen Ali hospital pass suicide by the selectors opener role.


Survives an early scare...
Didn't realise that a middle order batsman who has been pressed in to opening at times due to lack of decent openers also selected the team. Not too sure how Roy failing and therefore Bairstow being selected is Moeen's fault. Maybe you think he is such a good player he should bat in all 7 positions?
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