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Old 15th June 2017, 17:18   #121
Jock McTuffnel v3
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Not been any tight games in this tournament.
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Old 15th June 2017, 17:35   #122
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Pak v SL was tight for a while...but yeah, can't recall any others.
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Old 15th June 2017, 19:10   #123
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Why penalise the team that WON the group by making them play on a pitch that the LOSER of group B just played?
This is a very good question. Tilted the advantage toward Pakistan significantly.
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Old 15th June 2017, 22:32   #124
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Pity Australia didn't get those extra 4 overs against Bangladesh as they would have given India a game. Bangladesh's win over New Zealand was a fluke and spoilt the later stages,
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Old 16th June 2017, 00:14   #125
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This is a very good question. Tilted the advantage toward Pakistan significantly.
They wouldn't of known who would be playing beforehand and I guess the exact pitch to be used had already been chosen along with the stadium.
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Old 16th June 2017, 00:45   #126
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Pity Australia didn't get those extra 4 overs against Bangladesh as they would have given India a game. Bangladesh's win over New Zealand was a fluke and spoilt the later stages,
Given that the 'latter stages' are just one game and then the final and England stunk out yesterday's semi-final just as bad I don't think you can really say Bangladesh spoiled the tournament's latter stages.
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Old 16th June 2017, 01:21   #127
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They wouldn't of known who would be playing beforehand and I guess the exact pitch to be used had already been chosen along with the stadium.
True, but the planning was flawed to reuse a pitch which SA or Pakistan had won on, most likely, to qualify for the semi. Bowlers familiar with the track would have a distinct edge based on that experience only a couple of days prior.
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Old 16th June 2017, 04:07   #128
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True, but the planning was flawed to reuse a pitch which SA or Pakistan had won on, most likely, to qualify for the semi. Bowlers familiar with the track would have a distinct edge based on that experience only a couple of days prior.
Can you describe how a flat, dry pitch benefited the bowlers? None of the Pakistani bowlers git ant sharp turn and none if the pace bowlers got any seam. The movement Ali and Co got was late and through the air.

They had and have always had a superior level of skill when it comes to the older ball and hafeez bowls a tight, straight line.

England fell because they're less skilled and less determined in all 3 departments.

Learn to deal with it and also learn to appreciate the skill on show and the huge final coming up.
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Old 16th June 2017, 06:24   #129
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They were able to get reverse swing in conditions quite similar to the typical track in the UAE, it appears. Surely I don't need to spell out how such recent experience in identical conditions vs SA would be an advantage? Sarfraz had experimented with what would be optimal and did essentially a carbon copy of the same recipe, apart from Amir being crocked.

Yes, it played into Pakistan's strengths, and I have already credited them with a fine bowling effort. However, they are ranked 8 I believe prior to this tournament, so getting to the final means their stars have aligned rather fortuitously for both of their last two wins. They are likely to struggle in the final against a strong India team at the peak of its game.

No doubt use of the kookaburra ball in the conditions made them feel pretty much at home also.

I would agree that an India vs Pakistan final sets up really well for cricket overall, since they so rarely get to play each other.
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Old 16th June 2017, 08:25   #130
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Sadly it is rare Pakistan play India, this will be just the 11th since 1st January 2010

India have won 4 of the last 5 and 7 of the 10 in the period mentioned. Last two head to head in England (Edgbaston) Pakistan scored 164 and 165, and in Adelaide in the 2015 World Cup India scored 300/7 and Pakistan 224.
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Old 16th June 2017, 10:34   #131
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To me England's terrible batting performance was a clear case of the pressure of being favorites (after their dominant performance in the group stages) getting to them.

The used pitch excuse wears a little thin when Pakistan's batsmen (clearly their relatively weaker department) scored at nearly 6 an over batting second on that same used pitch. Even England themselves were fairly well placed at 128 for 2 at one stage.

Anyway, should be a good final. I make Pakistan slight favorites, only because their bowling attack is excellent and India's middle-order is untested. With the explosive Fakhar Zaman, they have added a bit of much needed oomph to their top order batting too.
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Old 16th June 2017, 11:52   #132
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Originally Posted by cg3 View Post

Anyway, should be a good final. I make Pakistan slight favorites, only because their bowling attack is excellent and India's middle-order is untested. With the explosive Fakhar Zaman, they have added a bit of much needed oomph to their top order batting too.
Did you even watch the last game between India and Pakistan? The excellent bowling attack was thrashed by India in the last game.


1. Pakistan got lucky against Sri Lanka,
2. Pitch saved them against England,
3. Add the stupid weather at the start of the whole tournament. Australia really got a raw deal.

Hence Pakistan has reached the final.

Last edited by truth : 16th June 2017 at 14:23.
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Old 16th June 2017, 12:01   #133
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Did you even watch the last game between India and Pakistan? Pakistan is going to get steamrolled in the final.
Indeed I did, and I've also followed Pakistan's three games since. Suggest you get yourself acquainted with them also to avoid a shock on Sunday.
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Old 16th June 2017, 12:02   #134
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Did you even watch the last game between India and Pakistan?

1. Pakistan got lucky against Sri Lanka and
2. Pitch saved them against England.
3. Add the stupid English weather at the start of the whole tournament. Australia really got a raw deal.

Hence Pakistan has reached the final.

For India to lose to Pakistan something terribly wrong will have to happen with the Indian players. Else Pakistan will get steam rolled.
Ah ok, Pakistan just won three games against on the trot against higher ranked teams by dint of luck. Got it.
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Old 16th June 2017, 12:37   #135
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To me England's terrible batting performance was a clear case of the pressure of being favorites (after their dominant performance in the group stages) getting to them. ...
Yes, I don't think they've been done any favours by the expectation that was set up by the media.

More generally, though, I wonder how anyone can know who the favourite is. From the OED:
FAVOURITE, n.
b. Horse Racing, etc. The competitor or competing animal generally favoured or ‘fancied’, as being most likely to win.
The word "generally" is significant here. In the circles where I move, the identity of the likeliest winner of this tournament is generally not of interest, let alone speculation. Also, I think the term "favourite" is often seen in connection with bookmakers' odds, whereby the horse (or team) with the shortest odds would be considered to be the favourite; but I think that would be something of a category mistake, since the bookmakers' odds are sensitive only to the placing of bets (the more bets are laid on a particular horse, the shorter its odds become), and yet expert gamblers would tend to bet not necessarily on the horse they think will win, but on the horse they think is most likely to win them the most money given the odds on offer at the time of the bet. Any attempt to ascertain who the "favourite" is (in the OED sense given above) on the basis of what's happening at the bookies would have to be very carefully conceptualised, and in any case only a small fraction of those who might have a view on who is most likely to win will also be gamblers, let alone gamblers who place their bets with legal bookies (the odds offered by illegal bookies would presumably be less open to investigation).
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Old 16th June 2017, 14:24   #136
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Ah ok, Pakistan just won three games against on the trot against higher ranked teams by dint of luck. Got it.
Well, according to Aamer Sohail, it was "external factors".
https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/spor...kistans-favor/

Seriously though, they were slightly lucky against Sri Lanka but played South Africa and England out of the park. They have more than a solid shot of winning.
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Old 16th June 2017, 14:57   #137
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Well, according to Aamer Sohail, it was "external factors".
https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/spor...kistans-favor/

Seriously though, they were slightly lucky against Sri Lanka but played South Africa and England out of the park. They have more than a solid shot of winning.
Lol - Pakistan may win, lose or not turn up but there's going to be at least one Pakistani ex-player alleging something sinister was in the mix
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Old 18th June 2017, 00:38   #138
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India’s batting strategy is to start steadily and accelerate gradually through the innings. The caution that defines this approach has meant India’s run rate in overs 1 to 10 of the Champions Trophy of 4.84 is the third lowest among all teams but they have only lost one wicket in those first ten overs. The stability offered by this start has allowed India to play positively between overs 11 to 30 without taking massive risks, resulting in an overs 11 to 30 run rate of 5.95—the highest among all teams—and the loss of just four wickets in that phase—the equal fewest among all teams. Having lost just five wickets before the 30th over—an average of 1.25 per match—India have been able to score at 7.62 runs per over in the last 20 overs—the highest among all teams. This is a strategy that has seen India score at a run rate 6.23 across the tournament—comfortably the highest among all teams.

My idea of how 50 overs should be played.
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Old 18th June 2017, 03:17   #139
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Lol England. That was an annihilation. Loved Morgan's comments, classy. Can't be the opposition when you lose, must be the pitch. Yeah, sure lol.

Wouldn't he need to be playing in Ireland to have home advantage anyway?
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Old 18th June 2017, 10:09   #140
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They'll never get anywhere with that approach. Especially in Blighty, where the pitches are oh so very different. The first thing they need to do is to get their wicketkeeper opening the batting.
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