Ireland and Afghanistan Enter the Test Fold

[billyguntheballs]

Originally Posted by DanielVettoriSpin

What are you on about? The ODI series was 1 - 1. I hardly think T20, where the Windies are still a decent team anyway, provide a firmer indication of Test success. They also defeated Zimbabwe 3 - 2. Both of these series were away from home. Pretty sure that's better than Bangladesh we're managing when they got Test status.

My point still stands. Of the 5 gamest hey played, they lost 4. What's your point again?

[DanielVettoriSpin]

Originally Posted by billyguntheballs

My point still stands. Of the 5 gamest hey played, they lost 4. What's your point again?

You think that combining T20s and ODIs into a single series is normal? It wasn't a 4 - 1 series FFS. It was a 3 - 0 T20 series and a 1 - 1 ODI series.

You claimed that Afghanistan would be embarrassed at the Test table. You obviously didn't watch the West Indian batting order try and play Rashid Khan in the ODIs. They were embarrassed. The West Indian team losing at home to Afghanistan. Even a 4 - 1 result isn't Afghanistan, the inexperienced touring team being embarrassed. You also said they lost by large margins every time they lost, which is ********. The ODI they lost was by 4 wickets and only one T20 was a shellacking. If your measure is the number of times they scored over 150, then the Windies didn't even achieve that mark once.

You also thought Ireland would be a better prospect than Afghanistan in Tests. Perhaps you should look at recent matches between the two. The most relevant being the recent Intercontinental Cup 4 day game: http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-inte...h/1040501.html. Afghanistan also won their recent series against Ireland 7 - 2. (or 1 - 0, 3 - 2, 3 - 0)

Basically, your original point is a load of old rusty rollocks.

[geoff_boycotts_grandmother]

Think you may be wasting your time with this poster DVS.

[billyguntheballs]

Originally Posted by DanielVettoriSpin

You think that combining T20s and ODIs into a single series is normal? It wasn't a 4 - 1 series FFS. It was a 3 - 0 T20 series and a 1 - 1 ODI series.

You claimed that Afghanistan would be embarrassed at the Test table. You obviously didn't watch the West Indian batting order try and play Rashid Khan in the ODIs. They were embarrassed. The West Indian team losing at home to Afghanistan. Even a 4 - 1 result isn't Afghanistan, the inexperienced touring team being embarrassed. You also said they lost by large margins every time they lost, which is ********. The ODI they lost was by 4 wickets and only one T20 was a shellacking. If your measure is the number of times they scored over 150, then the Windies didn't even achieve that mark once.

You also thought Ireland would be a better prospect than Afghanistan in Tests. Perhaps you should look at recent matches between the two. The most relevant being the recent Intercontinental Cup 4 day game: http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-inte...h/1040501.html. Afghanistan also won their recent series against Ireland 7 - 2. (or 1 - 0, 3 - 2, 3 - 0)

Basically, your original point is a load of old rusty rollocks.

You're the one that brought up limited overs cricket as some sort of barometer for AFG in test cricket

Like I said, time will ikely prove me right. If it doesn't, bump this post.

[cabinboy]

There's a wrong assumption that the Irish ODI team is going to simply migrate into the vacant test spots. That won't be the case. Some obviously will cross over like Porterfield, Joyce, Young and Chase. However, there's a generation of particularly young batsmen like James McCollum, James Shannon and Jack Tector who are all going to be in the mix. An Irish test team would look very different to the Irish ODI team.

I would imagine an Ireland test XI would look something like this. I'm including their ages to put the team in context.

Ian Porterfield, 32
Jack Tector, 20
James McCollum, 21
Ed Joyce, 38
James Shannon 27
Andrew Balbirnie 26
Gary Wilson, 31
George Dockerell, 24
Tim Murtagh, 35
Peter Chase, 23
Craig Young, 27

That's a fairly England type line up, with three pace bowlers, a spinner and an all rounder. Niall O'Brien could play instead of Wilson, there's not much difference between the pair at county cricket though so I'm going with the younger man. And everyone of them - Irish born or bred.

[Rebelstar]

Originally Posted by DanielVettoriSpin

I don't know what games you've been watching, but the only team embarrassed in the recent series vs. West Indies and particularly their batsmen. I watch a lot of Associate cricket, and I'm much more positive about the Afghan prospects.

Of the two I think the Afghans have more chance of making the transition smooth. Will be helped by their location, can make it a bit more of home advantage.



I confess I am not too optimistic by this move which I think is wrong, but let's keep our fingers crossed it works out.

The relevance of the Irish domestic set up is questionable, for me the standard of Irish international cricket will rest on how many of their players ply their trade and do well in a top domestic league ie England. Just like is the case for Scotland, Wales and Ireland at football.

Obviously that is in no small part down to quality of players, but also quality of football in terms of league.



One stat to cite, since Afghanistan played their first ODI in 2009 they and Scotland have beaten a top 7 ranked Test side just ONCE in 34 goes. This cuts off the win for Ireland over Pakistan in 2007, but whether or not they can hold their own against sides like West Indies and Zimbabwe which they clearly can, the likes of England, Australia, Pakistan, India and South Africa will be much sterner opposition over the longer format.

We will see anyway, most places I've looked (BBC, other forums, even here) seem happy at the decision and optimistic, but whichever side of the fence you fall on won't change what is going to happen - que sera, sera

[DanielVettoriSpin]

Originally Posted by cabinboy

Ian Porterfield, 32
Jack Tector, 20
James McCollum, 21
Ed Joyce, 38
James Shannon 27
Andrew Balbirnie 26
Gary Wilson, 31
George Dockerell, 24
Tim Murtagh, 35
Peter Chase, 23
Craig Young, 27

No Stirling? Surely he'd get in given his FC experience. He is capable of playing a more nuanced game than his ODI idiom might suggest. And I presume 'Ian' Porterfield is a typo?

[cabinboy]

Originally Posted by DanielVettoriSpin

No Stirling? Surely he'd get in given his FC experience. He is capable of playing a more nuanced game than his ODI idiom might suggest. And I presume 'Ian' Porterfield is a typo?

Sterling's first class record isn't that great, he's better at ODIs. That's the point I'm trying to make. People are judging a future Ireland test team on the evidence of the one day side, when like every other team, their test side will include a different set of players. Same with Kevin OBrien and McBrien.

And yeah William Porterfield was a typo. I'm sure Ian is somebody though.

[geoff_boycotts_grandmother]

Originally Posted by cabinboy

Sterling's first class record isn't that great, he's better at ODIs. That's the point I'm trying to make. People are judging a future Ireland test team on the evidence of the one day side, when like every other team, their test side will include a different set of players. Same with Kevin OBrien and McBrien.

And yeah William Porterfield was a typo. I'm sure Ian is somebody though.

Chances are the kids will get eaten alive.

It's a big step up from county cricket to test cricket.

See how talents like Duckett, Vince, Hales etc have struggled.

Every new test side has struggled for this reason.

ps The new Irish fc competition, how would you compare the standard to Division 1 and Division 2 in England?

[Ali TT]

Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother

Chances are the kids will get eaten alive.

It's a big step up from county cricket to test cricket.

See how talents like Duckett, Vince, Hales etc have struggled.

Every new test side has struggled for this reason.

ps The new Irish fc competition, how would you compare the standard to Division 1 and Division 2 in England?

The other week I watched a Kent top tier club match which featured a couple of fringe county players, a Pakistani pro with over 400 wickets in first class cricket and a South African batsman who averages 37 in their provincial game. I doubt the Irish first class sides would compete at that level currently.

[cabinboy]

Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother

Chances are the kids will get eaten alive.

It's a big step up from county cricket to test cricket.

See how talents like Duckett, Vince, Hales etc have struggled.

Every new test side has struggled for this reason.

ps The new Irish fc competition, how would you compare the standard to Division 1 and Division 2 in England?

It wouldn't be up to that standard, it's still in its infancy. But it's a marked step up from club cricket and needs a few years to embed. I would say the New Zealand standard of first class cricket is where we want to aim for. That's a big challenge in itself but could eventually be done in terms of numbers of players playing the game.

[DanielVettoriSpin]

Originally Posted by cabinboy

I would say the New Zealand standard of first class cricket is where we want to aim for. That's a big challenge in itself but could eventually be done in terms of numbers of players playing the game.

Hey, hey. Jeetan Patel was always marginally okay in New Zealand domestic, then he comes to the UK and becomes Warwickshire's player of the year. Hard to know the relative quality of NZ domestic versus English County. Perhaps having only 6 teams distils the quality into better quality groupings, and the main difference is that County cricket attracts international cricketers in a way that NZ domestic doesn't.

Anyway, this is all an unnecessary tangent for which I apologise.

Aim for NZ quality - a small number of high quality first class teams, build some rivalries etc. etc.

[mustardcharlie]

Agree fully DVS. NZ should be kicking SL butt for the right to play in England, Oz. India and SA. Thereby earning the big bucks. England got a whopping in Asia last winter. They have sorted SA and most are of the opinion this summer, they should crush WI. NZ are mostly competetive at home or abroad.