Cricket 24/7  

Welcome to the Cricket 24/7.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. There are also more forums available to members, such as the Lounge - where members chat about just about anything under the sun except cricket!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   Cricket 24/7 > Cricket Discussion Forums > International Cricket
Register FAQDonate Members List Calendar Casino Articles Terms of Use Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 29th June 2017, 05:12   #1
mustardcharlie
Established International
 
mustardcharlie's Avatar
You know there ain't no devil: It's just God when he's drun
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bedfordshire
Team(s): Yorkshire, England, LUFC, Otley RFC.
Age: 65
Posts: 4,696
So with test cricket starting in about a week...

Isn't it time we started talking serious cricket? I can watch and listen to a little bit of Sloggerama, but with only about a week to go I think that we should be discussing the 5 day game. What do people think the Eng team should be? I would have the following line up:

1. Cook
2. A.N. Other
3. A.N. Other
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Ali
8. Rashid
9. Wood
10. Broad
11. Anderson

This, of course, leaves the 2 and 3 positions open. Do we go for Hales, Hameed, Jennings, Malan, somebody else? Ballance maybe? The bowling attack is also open. Ball for Wood? Not really worried whether we play any of the bats at 5,6,7 in any order. Can we squeeze Buttler in there?

The SA team, even without Steyn and DeVil is still strong. Would leave that up to the Saffer fans to put their preference though.
__________________
Answers 3d
Answers (requiring thought) 6d
Answers (correct) 1s
mustardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 08:37   #2
Rebelstar
International Material
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,556
Isn't it cheating to let Other bat twice?!?

But seriously, has to be Hameed or Jennings, I'd argue possibly both. Jennings made a hundred and a fifty in his two Tests in India, a 0 and 1 as well but still enough to show he has ability.

Hameed has also done well enough before injury, more consistent but not yet got his hundreds column off zero. (early days for both of course, 10 knocks between them)



I'd be surprised and disappointed if we played both Rashid and Ali, I'm no fan of having six bowling options and Root is more than capable of turning his arm over IF necessary, so if you want to get Buttler in the side then bat Jonny and Buttler keep

I don't follow county cricket that closely, but I thought Anderson had injury issues......... (not that Stokes doesn't have problems)
Rebelstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 11:10   #3
sanskritsimon
Legendary
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 9,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelstar View Post
... I'd be surprised and disappointed if we played both Rashid and Ali, I'm no fan of having six bowling options and Root is more than capable of turning his arm over IF necessary, so if you want to get Buttler in the side then bat Jonny and Buttler keep ...
I think you pick your best three seamers and your best spinner, and then you pick the best batsmen to bat above them. If the best batsmen give you extra bowling options then so much the better; but you wouldn't want to pick an inferior batsman because you wanted to avoid having too many bowling options. As for Buttler, despite having played in our last few tests I don't think he'll be in consideration either as a wicketkeeper or as a specialist batsman.
sanskritsimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 11:17   #4
Ali TT
Posting God
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,697
Ali plays in the top 5.

Not sure we need another spinner in the match but Rashid or alternative should be in the squad so they can decide game day.

Hameed should be nowhere near the squad. County season for him, followed by A tour and a reassessment next year. A chance for Stoneman, perhaps? Although I'm not convinced he's a better alternative than ones of recent years such as Robson or Lyth.

England's record v SA at home since readmission is not great. Won one series, drawn twice and lost the last two. Since we last beat them in England we've defeated every other test side home and away at least once (except Zimbabwe).

Rename the thread to England v SA test series?
__________________
WARNING
Reading the above post may cause bouts of nausea.
Ali TT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 11:41   #5
1000yardstare
Posting Goddess
 
1000yardstare's Avatar
JA 795 Wagner 118 TCurran 7 SCurran 0 Cummins 101
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 20,230
SKY poll - Who should open with Cook?

Hameed 52%
Jennings 32%
Stoneman 17%

12436 votes
1000yardstare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 12:19   #6
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
Posting God
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 27,159
I don't see why Jennings would be dropped. He's the man in possession of the shirt, is averaging 40 in tests and is in reasonable form having scored two half centuries for the Lions the other day (Hameed got 0 and 2).
That means he opens with Cook.

That leaves probably one batting place up for grabs. If we look at county form:

Hameed 214 runs at 19.45
Ballance 815 runs at 101.87
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer
It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
geoff_boycotts_grandmother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 12:33   #7
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
Posting God
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 27,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustardcharlie View Post
Ball for Wood?
Ball's been ruled out.

Broad's a doubt as well.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer
It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
geoff_boycotts_grandmother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 12:38   #8
oldandfat
County Pro
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 713
Hameed has the potential to be a seriously good international player, however, at present surely he is unselectable?

Cook
Jennings
Stoneman
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson

Is what we should pick
oldandfat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 14:44   #9
mustardcharlie
Established International
 
mustardcharlie's Avatar
You know there ain't no devil: It's just God when he's drun
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bedfordshire
Team(s): Yorkshire, England, LUFC, Otley RFC.
Age: 65
Posts: 4,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
Ball's been ruled out.

Broad's a doubt as well.
There is also Willey of course. Don't know why Plunkett is playing for England A atm. The selectors know enough about him. I just read the bad news about Ball. The truth is that all our best seamers are injured, injury prone, down on pace etc., getting on a bit. How many overs can Stokes currently bowl in a day?
__________________
Answers 3d
Answers (requiring thought) 6d
Answers (correct) 1s
mustardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 14:55   #10
mustardcharlie
Established International
 
mustardcharlie's Avatar
You know there ain't no devil: It's just God when he's drun
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bedfordshire
Team(s): Yorkshire, England, LUFC, Otley RFC.
Age: 65
Posts: 4,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldandfat View Post
Hameed has the potential to be a seriously good international player, however, at present surely he is unselectable?

Cook
Jennings
Stoneman
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson

Is what we should pick
Not sure about Foakes. Where does he get in instead of Buttler? Or Stoneman come to that. Jennings would certainly be my choice in the top 3.
__________________
Answers 3d
Answers (requiring thought) 6d
Answers (correct) 1s
mustardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 15:40   #11
oldandfat
County Pro
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 713
Too be honest I have reservations about Foakes keeping - his method looks odd. But Butler is not a great keeper either and I cannot remember the last time he played a substantial innings. Bairstow needs to play at 5 as a specialist batsman.
Other way forward would be to keep Root at 3, play Bairstow at 4, and bring Balance in at 5?
oldandfat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 15:55   #12
sanskritsimon
Legendary
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 9,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldandfat View Post
... Bairstow needs to play at 5 as a specialist batsman. ...
I really do wish that this tiresome suggestion would go away. However, it's increasing looking like there will always be a high level of moaning about Bairstow, regardless of the format. Maybe he's just that kind of chap; but personally I've had quite enough of Bairstow moaning for this season already.

Bairstow's happy keeping wicket, we have plenty of fine batsmen to put in at nos 1--6, and there's no good reason to suppose that Bairstow would score more runs were he not wicketkeeper.

As far as I can see the only sensible reason to take the gloves off Bairstow, or even to suggest such a thing, is in order to be able to argue about the wicketkeeping slot again. But in the real world, Bairstow surely has the test keeping spot nailed on until he retires.
sanskritsimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 16:40   #13
oldandfat
County Pro
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanskritsimon View Post
I really do wish that this tiresome suggestion would go away. However, it's increasing looking like there will always be a high level of moaning about Bairstow, regardless of the format. Maybe he's just that kind of chap; but personally I've had quite enough of Bairstow moaning for this season already.
Not moaning about Bairstow, he is one of the best 3 batsmen in the country and IMO he has the ability to be a great player.

"Bairstow's happy keeping wicket, we have plenty of fine batsmen to put in at nos 1--6, and there's no good reason to suppose that Bairstow would score more runs were he not wicketkeeper."

Keeping for two days is simply not conducive to being a mainstay of the batting - Sangakarra?!?
Also who are these fine batsmen to play at 1-6 who you are confident will score runs in Australia this winter?
oldandfat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 17:06   #14
sanskritsimon
Legendary
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 9,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldandfat View Post
... Keeping for two days is simply not conducive to being a mainstay of the batting - Sangakarra?!?
I think that Sangakkara, who spent much of his test career as keeper at no. 3, is a rather different style of batsman to Bairstow. Bairstow may have the ability to develop into a top-class accumulator, but we may never know, and that doesn't matter. I think he is a good fit for no. 7, and I'd want the main mainstays of the batting to be the batsmen who have the temperament never to be tempted to try to force the pace. Having Stokes at no. 6 is already a bit risky for my liking. More generally, though, you might say the modern way is to consider the keeper batting at 7 to be one of the mainstays of the batting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldandfat View Post
Also who are these fine batsmen to play at 1-6 who you are confident will score runs in Australia this winter?
My hypothetical selections for the next test are there on the selection panel thread. I'd like to add Hameed and Livingstone. The general point is that I think we have a lot of batting quality around, and having Bairstow at 7 can reflect that depth. It smacks of desperation to de-glove a keeper and turn him into a batting specialist. The last time we tried that -- with Buttler over the winter -- it didn't work and we really were desperate.
sanskritsimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 18:45   #15
Ali TT
Posting God
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,697
I agree with Sans about Bairstow. If he plays as keeper, he stays at 7. Having that type of counter-attacking batsman is a huge asset, regardless of the relative talents of those above him in the order. One could take the gloves off him, and promote him to 4 or 5, but we would then need to decide on who to replace him. I just don't think Buttler cuts it at test level in either discipline. Foakes, who I'd pick over Buttler, is very much an unknown and is probably less talented than Bairstow.
__________________
WARNING
Reading the above post may cause bouts of nausea.
Ali TT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 19:37   #16
AJ101
International Material
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,073
I'm not a big fan of taking the gloves off Bairstow but a couple of points.

Kumar was a much more productive batsman as a specialist rather than as a keeper/batsman, that may have been down to natural progression though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanskritsimon View Post
Bairstow's happy keeping wicket, we have plenty of fine batsmen to put in at nos 1--6, and there's no good reason to suppose that Bairstow would score more runs were he not wicketkeeper.
Who are these fine batsman the cupboard has looked pretty bare for quite a while now in my eyes at least.

Hameed shouldn't be picked with the form he's in I don't think it would do either him, the team or other players any good at all. Jennings I would expect to keep his spot. No idea who takes the other batting spot it's all a bit worrisome at the moment with the number of injuries.
AJ101 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 21:19   #17
sharky
Posting God
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sunny Sussex
Team(s): Sussex, England
Posts: 10,319
It'll be Ballance at 4 with Jennings opening I'm sure. It's a shame for Hameed as he looks the real deal but his time will come again. It'll be interesting to see what kind of fit seam attack they come up with. I wouldn't be surprised to see Curran get the nod to bowl in tandem with Jimmy to learn the ropes.
__________________
She was like a candle in the wind...Unreliable
sharky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 22:15   #18
JRC67
International Material
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
It'll be Ballance at 4 with Jennings opening I'm sure. It's a shame for Hameed as he looks the real deal but his time will come again. It'll be interesting to see what kind of fit seam attack they come up with. I wouldn't be surprised to see Curran get the nod to bowl in tandem with Jimmy to learn the ropes.
Reading The Telegraph article I'd be surprised if it's Ballance plays. Bayliss clearly thinks his technique isn't up to the top level. Jennings will play. I'd guess it's a toss up between Stoneman and Malan from what has been said. Will mean nearly all left handers in the top order.

Not sure why either Buttler or Foakes are seen as potential keepers over Alex Davies. He's also dispelling the myth a keeper can't bat up the order. He's a better keeper than Buttler and on the little I've seen of Foakes better than him too ... and scoring a lot more runs than either.
JRC67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2017, 22:43   #19
billyguntheballs
County Pro
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 617
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustardcharlie View Post
Isn't it time we started talking serious cricket? I can watch and listen to a little bit of Sloggerama, but with only about a week to go I think that we should be discussing the 5 day game. What do people think the Eng team should be? I would have the following line up:

1. Cook
2. A.N. Other
3. A.N. Other
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Ali
8. Rashid
9. Wood
10. Broad
11. Anderson

This, of course, leaves the 2 and 3 positions open. Do we go for Hales, Hameed, Jennings, Malan, somebody else? Ballance maybe? The bowling attack is also open. Ball for Wood? Not really worried whether we play any of the bats at 5,6,7 in any order. Can we squeeze Buttler in there?

The SA team, even without Steyn and DeVil is still strong. Would leave that up to the Saffer fans to put their preference though.
Jennings to open. Hameed is too young to be a current replacement.

Why should Root not be at three?

I also think Plunkett should get a call over Wood in tests, for now at least.

I'd go with:

1. Cook
2. Jennings
3. Root c
4. Bairstow
5. Ali (a classy batsman when given the opportunity and should slot into the mo, has done well anyway)
6. Buttler
7. Stokes (could be in buttlers position)
8. Rashid
9. Broad
10. Plunkett
11. Anderson

12th man Wood

South Africa are probably going to have a tougher time picking their best combination.

I'd go with:

1. De Bruyn
2. Elgar
3. Amla
4. Faf c
5. JP
6. Bavuma
7. QDK wk
8. Morris/Philander
9. Maharaj
10. Rabada
11. Morkel

Doesn't seem like a strong outfit tbh. The bowling looks good but a lot of these guys have been smashed around in ENgland already and wont have the best confidence.

The middle order looks uneven. I'm not sure if this will be as good as the last couple series these teams have had.
__________________

I can accept failure...I can not accept not trying again.
billyguntheballs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2017, 00:20   #20
sanskritsimon
Legendary
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 9,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
... It's a shame for Hameed as he looks the real deal but his time will come again. ...
I wouldn't be so sure. That's certainly what's commonly when someone who's obviously fantastic has somehow pi$$ed on their chips; but although it no doubt makes it easier for the fond onlookers, it may or may not be true. Only a few months ago they were saying it about Duckett but I doubt anyone believes that now. Truth be told both of those batsmen may now have missed their only chance. I'd say with both of them their best chance is to move to Yorkshire if at all possible.
sanskritsimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:45.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Cricket247.org