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Old 30th June 2017, 04:58   #21
Jock McTuffnel v3
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Ali will get brutalised in Oz with the short ball and has been average in red ball cricket for 18 months.

Time to plan ahead.
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Old 30th June 2017, 06:46   #22
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Ali will get brutalised in Oz with the short ball and has been average in red ball cricket for 18 months.

Time to plan ahead.
There are times when you start to develop a possible point, but your argument gets brutalised by your inability to make any reference to anything that has happened in reality and only the world inside your head.

If you want to make your point stick to Ali was out last year hooking 3 times. His overall record last year was good, 3rd highest average of an English batsman 6th highest run scored in the world. 18 months includes his Pakistan disaster and the last time he got brutalised by Australia to such an extent he ... was 3rd in the batting averages and 3rd highest run scored for England.
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Old 30th June 2017, 07:08   #23
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and the last time he got brutalised by Australia to such an extent he ... was 3rd in the batting averages and 3rd highest run scored for England.
To be fair he did say he will be "brutalised in Oz" and apart from the series in India Ali's averages on tour don't exactly suggest he will definitely be wrong :

22 in West Indies
14 in UAE vs Pakistan
29 in South Africa
23 in Bangladesh
42 in India

But as you say, his figures in 2016 and 2017 overall are solid enough with the bat : 978 runs @ 46.57 (100 x4, 50 x4)

His bowling in the same period not so hot as I'm sure most will acknowledge, some without a "yeah but........" : 33 wkts @ 46.85. Root in the same period has taken 3 wkts @ 36.00 with much less bowling but at a better SR (62.67 vs 76.73)
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Old 30th June 2017, 08:49   #24
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Reading The Telegraph article I'd be surprised if it's Ballance plays. Bayliss clearly thinks his technique isn't up to the top level. Jennings will play. I'd guess it's a toss up between Stoneman and Malan from what has been said. Will mean nearly all left handers in the top order.

Not sure why either Buttler or Foakes are seen as potential keepers over Alex Davies. He's also dispelling the myth a keeper can't bat up the order. He's a better keeper than Buttler and on the little I've seen of Foakes better than him too ... and scoring a lot more runs than either.
I've not seen or read much about Davies although it would seem that Buttler and Foakes are higher up in the selectors' thinking given their representative honours.

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Originally Posted by Rebelstar View Post
To be fair he did say he will be "brutalised in Oz" and apart from the series in India Ali's averages on tour don't exactly suggest he will definitely be wrong :

22 in West Indies
14 in UAE vs Pakistan
29 in South Africa
23 in Bangladesh
42 in India

But as you say, his figures in 2016 and 2017 overall are solid enough with the bat : 978 runs @ 46.57 (100 x4, 50 x4)

His bowling in the same period not so hot as I'm sure most will acknowledge, some without a "yeah but........" : 33 wkts @ 46.85. Root in the same period has taken 3 wkts @ 36.00 with much less bowling but at a better SR (62.67 vs 76.73)
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Old 30th June 2017, 09:45   #25
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Ali will get brutalised in Oz with the short ball and has been average in red ball cricket for 18 months.

Time to plan ahead.
Really?

In 28 innings since Jan 2016, he has 9 scores of 50 or more with 4 centuries. Two of those centuries came at 7 and one of those was a great rear guard against Pakistan wh en England looked completely washed up.

Ali is a great counter attacking cricketer but because he has spent so long at 7 or 8 across formats, his mentality these days is hit hit hit. That is sad to see at times because his technique is so good and his shots look pure class. A batsman like that should stay in the middle order and be given his fair due, because he is a batsman who bowls a bit, not a bowler who bats a bit.
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Old 30th June 2017, 12:38   #26
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That is sad to see at times because his technique is so good and his shots look pure class.
Not against the short ball it isn't. That's the problem he'll have this winter, we'd better get used to it.
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Old 30th June 2017, 15:08   #27
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I wouldn't be so sure. That's certainly what's commonly when someone who's obviously fantastic has somehow pi$$ed on their chips; but although it no doubt makes it easier for the fond onlookers, it may or may not be true. Only a few months ago they were saying it about Duckett but I doubt anyone believes that now. Truth be told both of those batsmen may now have missed their only chance. I'd say with both of them their best chance is to move to Yorkshire if at all possible.
I agree with this. Of course either Hameed or less likely Duckett could make a compelling case for a batting gap that we'll almost probably have most of the time for the next few years, given how uncertain our options are now. Equally, I think the narrative around Hameed especially is distinctly unconvincing: he's obviously got some talent but having scored runs in test cricket doesn't automatically mean he'd do so again. After his abysmally poor returns this season, his overall first class record is now actually rather weak. Of course it's a small sample size and may not reflect true merit but his test record is a much smaller sample size still. You'd want to see a real run of success to be at all confident and it's only our lack of options that saw such a neophyte play tests at all and remain remotely in contention despite his recent travails.
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Old 30th June 2017, 17:16   #28
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Not against the short ball it isn't. That's the problem he'll have this winter, we'd better get used to it.
So have multiple ENglish batsmen, so your point is not valid.
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Old 30th June 2017, 22:04   #29
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I wouldn't be so sure. That's certainly what's commonly when someone who's obviously fantastic has somehow pi$$ed on their chips; but although it no doubt makes it easier for the fond onlookers, it may or may not be true. Only a few months ago they were saying it about Duckett but I doubt anyone believes that now. Truth be told both of those batsmen may now have missed their only chance. I'd say with both of them their best chance is to move to Yorkshire if at all possible.
I would strongly encourage all cricketers to move to Yorkshire,
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Old 1st July 2017, 00:38   #30
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Has everyone forgotten that we failed to beat Bangladesh and got smashed by India why no wholesale changes ??

Last summer was hardly great either.

Why aren't we making changes?
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Old 1st July 2017, 00:46   #31
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I really do wish that this tiresome suggestion would go away. However, it's increasing looking like there will always be a high level of moaning about Bairstow, regardless of the format. Maybe he's just that kind of chap; but personally I've had quite enough of Bairstow moaning for this season already.

Bairstow's happy keeping wicket, we have plenty of fine batsmen to put in at nos 1--6, and there's no good reason to suppose that Bairstow would score more runs were he not wicketkeeper.

As far as I can see the only sensible reason to take the gloves off Bairstow, or even to suggest such a thing, is in order to be able to argue about the wicketkeeping slot again. But in the real world, Bairstow surely has the test keeping spot nailed on until he retires.
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Old 1st July 2017, 08:52   #32
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Has everyone forgotten that we failed to beat Bangladesh and got smashed by India why no wholesale changes ??

Last summer was hardly great either.

Why aren't we making changes?
Other than sending Mo to prison for killing your cats, what changes would you like to see?
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Old 1st July 2017, 11:54   #33
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Other than sending Mo to prison for killing your cats, what changes would you like to see?
The selectors have confirmed that the only reasons we failed to win any of the last 3 series were Cooks captaincy and Rashid.

Terrific.
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Old 1st July 2017, 11:55   #34
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I would strongly encourage all cricketers to move to Yorkshire,
Tell that to Rashid.
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Old 1st July 2017, 11:57   #35
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The selectors have confirmed that the only reasons we failed to win any of the last 3 series were Cooks captaincy and Rashid.

Terrific.
Deflection. What team would you pick?
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Old 1st July 2017, 12:27   #36
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Stoneman unlucky. Probably a victim of Root's preference for Ballance.
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Old 1st July 2017, 12:41   #37
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Cook
Stoneman/HH
Jennings
Root
Malan/Ballance (last chance)
Stokes
Bairstow
Rashid/ Crane
Wood
Broad
Anderson

Ashes prep in mind .
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Old 1st July 2017, 13:19   #38
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Cook
Stoneman/HH
Jennings
Root
Malan/Ballance (last chance)
Stokes
Bairstow
Rashid/ Crane
Wood
Broad
Anderson

Ashes prep in mind .
England won't play Rashid or Crane in what could potentially become a 4 man attack during the game while Stokes has his knee problem. Yes they are capable of winning a game but both have shown this week they can also go for 100 runs for nothing in a session if they aren't getting it right. Potentially they are match winners on the 5th day but in a 4 man attack they could lose a test on the first day. Interesting that you want to give someone averaging 19.90 last year a last chance over someone averaging 46.86 and who scored 190 runs in his last test, though probably somewhat predictable.
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Old 1st July 2017, 15:27   #39
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should this thread be amalgamated with the selection panel thread?
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Old 1st July 2017, 15:42   #40
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Dawson opening the batting for Hants makes me think it might be

Cook
Jennings
Dawson
Root
Ballance
Stokes

Whitaker on Ballance "He deserves to be included and we feel that he will add maturity and experience to our middle order."
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