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Old 20th July 2017, 22:58   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jock McTuffnel v3 View Post
Very very generous Billy.

Are you Santa ?
He gave out a zero, two ones and a two.

Sort of agrees with what I was saying on the second test thread about the problem not so much being England's best seven players (although none of them exactly did well this test' except maybe Anderson) but the passenger contingent.
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Old 27th July 2017, 07:55   #62
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ok, was BGB over generous? In some I'd say a little, but generally speaking you can argue ratings up or down a couple of points. I do find it a bit odd, or maybe it's his run of form influencing it, that Ballance should score 31 runs and yet get 4 less in his rating for scoring 14 less runs than Cook whose runs came when defeat was inevitable........... ie scored a decent 42 when it mattered least



Cook 3/10 - got a start 2nd innings, didn't go on but did look more likely to hang about than others

Jennings 1/10 - can't really give a zero, and whilst he may not have made many runs he did see off 4 and a half overs of new ball (combined innings BF)

Ballance 3/10 - may not have made many runs, but his 27 1st innings helped Root stabilise the innings, after he and then Root got out the rest fell for 62 runs.

Root 5/10 - may not have made many 2nd innings, but at least fought to keep England in the match with his 78, up there with any score the South African batsmen made (HS 87)

Bairstow 6/10 - decent 1st innings knock, kept well enough, only top six England batsman to score double figures both innings.

Stokes 5/10 - didn't do a lot with the bat, improved returns with the ball

Ali 4/10 - picked up a few cheapish middle and lower order wickets as South Africa piled on the runs to set a big target 2nd innings, disappointing with the bat.

Dawson 2/10 - did nothing much with bat or ball

Broad 4/10 - did well enough 1st innings, but needed him to do a bit better 2nd innings when England were up against it

Wood 1/10 - 13 wickets in his last 13 bowls says it all, no great surprise he conceded over 120 runs for no wickets this Test

Anderson 7/10 - picked off the middle and lower order second morning to get a 5wi, unable to crank it up 2nd innings to drag England back into it but did as much as any one of the six when leaving them 18/1
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Old 28th July 2017, 18:36   #63
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Yes, maybe I was too generous with Cook but he did look like the only guy capable of hanging around and not swinging his bat like he was trying to chase 50 off the last 5 of a t20.
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Old 1st August 2017, 10:39   #64
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3rd Test Ratings

1. A. Cook 6/10 - A good first innings, crucial to England getting a decent score but his second innings was was scratchy and pointless. Have to dock him points for that.

2. K. Jennings 4/10 - Atleast this time he managed to hang around...

3. T. Westley 6/10 - A scratchy but defiant first test, which bodes well for a new number 3.

4. J. Root 5/10 - Batted well enough but captained like a geriatric. Problematic when one feels 350 is not enough with barely a day left. The young and vibrant era seems very much like the old days.

5. D. Malan 2/10 - A test debut to forget.

6. B. Stokes 8/10 - A crucial first innings century and a quick 30 later on helped England build and extend their lead. The bowling was economical with a hint of magic, QDK will not forget that for years.

7. J. Bairstow 7/10 - An entertaining, ODI-ish second innings which would have delighted a lot of fans who had watched some dreary batting throughout. Plus, Bairstow is become ever more solid behind the stumps. Carry on like this and he may surpass Sarfraz as the best keeper/batsman in world cricket.

8. M. Ali 8/10 - Never had a chance to do much with the bat but the final day was all about Mo. He has obviously worked on his bowling a lot andi t shows. The drift he gets negates the fact he doesn ot have a doosra and he can spin the ball past both edges. The hat-trick was the stand out moment of the series...one in which Ali already had a 10-for.

9. TR. Jones 9/10 - I always refrain from giving a score as high as this but to come in on your debut and put England in the driver's seat after a horrendous second test deserves it. 5 wickets first up and 3 more later on. That's not to mention the control he showed with his immaculate line.

10. S. Broad 5/10 - The odl warhorse carries on, lacking the bite of years gone by.

11. J. Anderson 7/10 - Good bowling throughout and it was unlucky he didn't pick up a wicket or 2 in the second innings. The pace has decreased over the years but the skills are still there and he keeps getting smarter.
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Old 1st August 2017, 10:46   #65
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Overall not too different from you at all but I would give an upgrade to Cook as his first innings knock really was a very important and good one given the conditions. I also think you're being harsh on his 2nd dig. He was got out brilliantly after being worked over by Morkel. No real shame in that.

I'd also give Root a 6 rather than a 5.
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Old 1st August 2017, 11:25   #66
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Can't see how Root can still be criticised for his declaration when he was completely vindicated by the result. Also, his use of the review was much better this week. Seems to have sorted out the chaos from the previous match.
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Old 1st August 2017, 11:33   #67
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Can't see how Root can still be criticised for his declaration when he was completely vindicated by the result. Also, his use of the review was much better this week. Seems to have sorted out the chaos from the previous match.
Billy been listening to too much Shane Warne propaganda yo...
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Old 1st August 2017, 12:19   #68
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Billy been listening to too much Shane Warne propaganda yo...
More than anything I think it was lost for some folk that when England declared on the last day there were 40 overs left on that day, i.e. nearly a day and half's worth of cricket. They could have declared maybe a handful overs sooner than they did, but even at the time I can't say that it seemed to make a lot of difference. The issue around the ground was more that if England didn't bowl them out that they could only blame the impotency of the bowlers. It of course never came even close to that.
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Old 1st August 2017, 12:25   #69
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I said on the match thread I'd have gone a few overs before tea because I'd have wanted a nice 25 minute session with the new ball and then come back again but there really wasn't much in it.

If our bowlers on that pitch with scoreboard pressure couldn't have bowled out South Africa in 130+ overs in the final innings then that is not the fault of the captain's declaration.
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Old 1st August 2017, 12:46   #70
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1. A. Cook 6/10 - A good first innings, crucial to England getting a decent score but his second innings was was scratchy and pointless. Have to dock him points for that.

2. K. Jennings 4/10 - Atleast this time he managed to hang around...

3. T. Westley 6/10 - A scratchy but defiant first test, which bodes well for a new number 3.

4. J. Root 5/10 - Batted well enough but captained like a geriatric. Problematic when one feels 350 is not enough with barely a day left. The young and vibrant era seems very much like the old days.

5. D. Malan 2/10 - A test debut to forget.

6. B. Stokes 8/10 - A crucial first innings century and a quick 30 later on helped England build and extend their lead. The bowling was economical with a hint of magic, QDK will not forget that for years.

7. J. Bairstow 7/10 - An entertaining, ODI-ish second innings which would have delighted a lot of fans who had watched some dreary batting throughout. Plus, Bairstow is become ever more solid behind the stumps. Carry on like this and he may surpass Sarfraz as the best keeper/batsman in world cricket.

8. M. Ali 8/10 - Never had a chance to do much with the bat but the final day was all about Mo. He has obviously worked on his bowling a lot andi t shows. The drift he gets negates the fact he doesn ot have a doosra and he can spin the ball past both edges. The hat-trick was the stand out moment of the series...one in which Ali already had a 10-for.

9. TR. Jones 9/10 - I always refrain from giving a score as high as this but to come in on your debut and put England in the driver's seat after a horrendous second test deserves it. 5 wickets first up and 3 more later on. That's not to mention the control he showed with his immaculate line.

10. S. Broad 5/10 - The odl warhorse carries on, lacking the bite of years gone by.

11. J. Anderson 7/10 - Good bowling throughout and it was unlucky he didn't pick up a wicket or 2 in the second innings. The pace has decreased over the years but the skills are still there and he keeps getting smarter.
Mo higher than Jimmy, Cook, Westley and WJB ? And equal with Stokes ? Yer having a giraffe.

Those guys set the game up when the pressure was on - far harder than mopping up tail enders when the game was gone.

Mo flopped twice with the bat and was ineffective with the ball until the car was started. 6 max.
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Old 1st August 2017, 13:37   #71
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Mo higher than Jimmy, Cook, Westley and WJB ? And equal with Stokes ? Yer having a giraffe.

Those guys set the game up when the pressure was on - far harder than mopping up tail enders when the game was gone.

Mo flopped twice with the bat and was ineffective with the ball until the car was started. 6 max.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
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Old 1st August 2017, 16:19   #72
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Overall not too different from you at all but I would give an upgrade to Cook as his first innings knock really was a very important and good one given the conditions. I also think you're being harsh on his 2nd dig. He was got out brilliantly after being worked over by Morkel. No real shame in that.

I'd also give Root a 6 rather than a 5.
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Can't see how Root can still be criticised for his declaration when he was completely vindicated by the result. Also, his use of the review was much better this week. Seems to have sorted out the chaos from the previous match.
Root is supposed to be the new face of English cricket .He is supposed to be the type of captain England have never had. A declaration of 350 was enough, it is far too negative and shows a defeatist mentality to think you have to get 400+ otherwise your bowlers can't defend it. You probably won't understand if you're English.

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Mo higher than Jimmy, Cook, Westley and WJB ? And equal with Stokes ? Yer having a giraffe.

Those guys set the game up when the pressure was on - far harder than mopping up tail enders when the game was gone.

Mo flopped twice with the bat and was ineffective with the ball until the car was started. 6 max.
Ali had THE moment of the test series so far. Andi t's not just the wickets, its what he showed with the ball. This is probably the first time (yes, even with the 10for) that I've felt Mo looked like a genuine offy. Drift, spin, loop...he showed everything and even when he was getting wickets, he had the batsmen wondering what would happen.

Havent seen that from an English spinner in a long time.
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Old 1st August 2017, 16:40   #73
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As always with all rounders, you question how much to dock them if they do well in one discipline and badly in the other. Ali hardly got to bowl first innings and did well second but yes, flopped with the bat. I think a 7 would be fair enough but wouldn't quibble with a 6. Cook definitely worth 7, at least.
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Old 1st August 2017, 16:44   #74
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South Africa

1. D. Elgar 7/10 - Elgar played a lone hand for SA and several times in that second innings looked like he was batting on a different surface to the others.

2. H. Kuhn 2/10 - An opening batsman who can only reach a score of 20 or more once in 6 innings? Utter tut.

3. H. Amla 3/10 - If this wasn't Amla, I'd be calling for him to be dropped.

4. Q. de Kock 5/10 - Nothing with the bat but at least good behind the stumps.

5. F. du Plessis 2/10 - Where was this guy? It was as if the captain was invisible, looking to hide from the moment SA entered the field. Then there was his batting...or lack of considering he seems to have forgotten what the wooden club in his hand is for.

6. T. Bavuma 6/10 - SAs least talked about batsman but one who stands up under pressure. A 50 and 30-odd were crucial in providing his country with a certain level of resistance.

7. C. Morris 4/10 - Too expensive with the ball but showed a bit with the bat and managed to last longer than a fair few batsmen.

8. K. Maharaj 6/10 - Very good with the ball and entertaining with the bat. Its just a shame he ran out of partners.

9. K. Rabada 6/10 - Carries on doing well if not spectacular. I'm still waiting for him to produce the type of test I was hoping for before the series.

10. M. Morkel 6/10 - Pretty good throughout the series and a first innings which was fun to watch.

11. V. Philander 5/10 - Bowled well enough but not quite to his highest standards.
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Old 1st August 2017, 16:44   #75
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As always with all rounders, you question how much to dock them if they do well in one discipline and badly in the other. Ali hardly got to bowl first innings and did well second but yes, flopped with the bat. I think a 7 would be fair enough but wouldn't quibble with a 6. Cook definitely worth 7, at least.
Can't really complain about Ali's batting when he is down at 8.
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Old 1st August 2017, 17:15   #76
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Root is supposed to be the new face of English cricket .He is supposed to be the type of captain England have never had. A declaration of 350 was enough, it is far too negative and shows a defeatist mentality to think you have to get 400+ otherwise your bowlers can't defend it. You probably won't understand if you're English.
.
This is not good reasoning. There was time left. So much time left. He didn't need to declare at 350 as his team had allowed him that luxury by bowling so well in the first innings. He reasoned that 130ish overs would be enough to bowl South Africa out and then some and so it proved. How is that defeatist?
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Old 1st August 2017, 17:15   #77
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More than anything I think it was lost for some folk that when England declared on the last day there were 40 overs left on that day, i.e. nearly a day and half's worth of cricket. They could have declared maybe a handful overs sooner than they did, but even at the time I can't say that it seemed to make a lot of difference. The issue around the ground was more that if England didn't bowl them out that they could only blame the impotency of the bowlers. It of course never came even close to that.
Although of course the arguments being thrashed out are about leaving no possibility of an SA win or draw, will the weather hold, blah blah - all solid tactical points - the actualité is that spectators are fed up of watching the team bat on and on with no tension re wickets falling as they don't matter. Admirable as may be the exciting Stokes strokes and Bairstow boundaries, what the whole of the Oval (apart from Chin) wanted for quite a while before tea on Sunday was for Root to declare and let our bowlers loose on SA's batsmen to start the endgame.
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Old 1st August 2017, 17:27   #78
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This is not good reasoning. There was time left. So much time left. He didn't need to declare at 350 as his team had allowed him that luxury by bowling so well in the first innings. He reasoned that 130ish overs would be enough to bowl South Africa out and then some and so it proved. How is that defeatist?
Thanks for responding. I can't say I have any idea what Billy is twattling on about. But then, I am English...

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Although of course the arguments being thrashed out are about leaving no possibility of an SA win or draw, will the weather hold, blah blah - all solid tactical points - the actualité is that spectators are fed up of watching the team bat on and on with no tension re wickets falling as they don't matter. Admirable as may be the exciting Stokes strokes and Bairstow boundaries, what the whole of the Oval (apart from Chin) wanted for quite a while before tea on Sunday was for Root to declare and let our bowlers loose on SA's batsmen to start the endgame.
I can see that side of the argument, although I think victories in the end are more entertaining for home fans. I'm not sure if it came through to the crowd but it seemed that if Root had declared in the half hour before he did, tea would've been called, so there was a bit of a dead period. Think England added about 40-50 runs during it.
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Old 1st August 2017, 17:28   #79
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Thanks for responding. I can't say I have any idea what Billy is twattling on about. But then, I am English...
And there it is. The English defeatist attitude right there for everyone to see...
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Old 1st August 2017, 17:47   #80
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I can see that side of the argument, although I think victories in the end are more entertaining for home fans. I'm not sure if it came through to the crowd but it seemed that if Root had declared in the half hour before he did, tea would've been called, so there was a bit of a dead period. Think England added about 40-50 runs during it.
Well indeed victories are what we want to watch. But when declarations are involved, my experience, whether at the ground or watching TV and following social media, is of an impatience to get the declaration out of the way and "get on with the game". It might sometimes ignore the valid reasons for waiting. But at the test v Pak at Old Trafford last year Cook and Root batted on and on in their 2nd innings for absolutely no reason. Root had already made 250 in the 1st inns and the lead at start of play was well over 400. The bowlers weren't tired as it was a new day. It was pure self-indulgence.
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