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Old 16th July 2017, 15:42   #181
luckyluke
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300. I think England will frustratingly demonstrate the application that was required yesterday. For a bit at least.
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Old 16th July 2017, 16:12   #182
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Well this is fun?

It has all the makings of a 450 chase, England rallying early on before being bowled out for 300. Then again we might get rolled for 150.

Either way, we are pretty screwed.
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Old 16th July 2017, 16:19   #183
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Our slow bowlers have a wicket !
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Old 16th July 2017, 16:22   #184
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Amla strategically donates his wicket to Dawson to ensure selection in the next test...
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Old 16th July 2017, 16:25   #185
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Amla is Dawson's bunny. Out classed him there.
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Old 16th July 2017, 16:41   #186
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The question is not if England lose, but how they lose. Maybe they (cliché alert) go down with all guns blazing. Or should they grind out a 300 over 5 sessions.
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Old 16th July 2017, 16:42   #187
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Should have been given out on the field. Commentators defending him but it was going to hit middle stump. don't get more out than that.
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Old 16th July 2017, 16:49   #188
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Amla strategically donates his wicket to Dawson to ensure selection in the next test...
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Old 16th July 2017, 17:14   #189
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Now Ali has snared Bavuma. The spinners have done okay to pick up a couple of wickets ahead of the new ball. England would probably prefer not to have to bat this evening, with sun in the forecast for Monday.
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Old 16th July 2017, 18:34   #190
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Even if they had picked a specialist batsman ahead of a "good honest county pro" (Dawson) they'd still be staring down the barrel. Wood and Stokes didn't provide sufficient back up to Broad and Anderson and five of the top seven were pathetic.
Said specialist batsman would also have been batting at no. 8, since all the Yorkshire players have to bat first, and Stokes has to bat at 6, and Moeen would be wasted at 8.

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I've been trying to manufacture a scenario in my head where England can still win this match but I'm struggling. Instead I'll have to settle for reasons to be cheerful.

1. I'm at the best ground in the country.
2. It's dry but overcast.
3. Broad and Anderson love bowling here.
4. I'll get to see QDK bat.
5. I've just seen Superstar Samit Patel. What an honour.
The scenario for England to win is really quite simple. South Africa won't get enough runs and won't bat for long enough to bat England out of the game. All England will have to do to win is grow a pair, get their heads down and bat for the draw, as long as the pitch dies and we get a bit lucky.

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If Woakes is fit for OT, I think there's a strong likelihood that England will drop Dawson and replace him with a number 3. Probably either Stoneman or Malan I'd imagine. Then they could push Ballance down to 5, which seems only fair to him, as he never bats at 3 in the championship. I do think he and Jennings will be out of the side before the 1st test vs WI if they don't put on a score soon.
See above; England have batting coming out of their ears, and will have even more of it when Woakes returns for the surprisingly hapless Wood. Adding an extra batsman won't help if the instructions are to bat like idiots. The problem that the commentators have been banging on about all match really has nothing to do with picking an extra batsman; it has to do with the moral offence of picking two players who could conceivably be called spinners on a pitch that isn't completely hopeless for bowling seam on. Seamers are more important than spinners, who must be kept out of the game if at all possible. Never mind that when England lost the game in their first innings, they gifted Maharaj more than his fair share of wickets.
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Old 16th July 2017, 18:42   #191
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Now Ali has snared Bavuma. The spinners have done okay to pick up a couple of wickets ahead of the new ball. England would probably prefer not to have to bat this evening, with sun in the forecast for Monday.
The reason we will lose this test is because the S.A. seamers bowled better with the new ball and their top 3 have scored a lot more runs. The rest is really background noise.
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Old 16th July 2017, 18:45   #192
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Can anyone really say Stoneman or Malan are likely to add any more than (or much in addition to) Robson, Lyth, Compton, Vince, Ballance or Jennings? I don't know what the answer is with this constant conveyor belt of ordinary batsmen. Hameed does seem to have something extra in terms of class that still makes him stick out from the pack in my opinion, and it's a huge shame he lost his form completely,. But then you go back to the side that had Trott, Strauss and Collingwood in it and they weren't particularly any more talented than the above players but somehow they could perform at a much higher standard. Was it better coaching, or just better temperament?
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Old 16th July 2017, 19:09   #193
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Can anyone really say Stoneman or Malan are likely to add any more than (or much in addition to) Robson, Lyth, Compton, Vince, Ballance or Jennings? I don't know what the answer is with this constant conveyor belt of ordinary batsmen. Hameed does seem to have something extra in terms of class that still makes him stick out from the pack in my opinion, and it's a huge shame he lost his form completely,. But then you go back to the side that had Trott, Strauss and Collingwood in it and they weren't particularly any more talented than the above players but somehow they could perform at a much higher standard. Was it better coaching, or just better temperament?
That temperament factor is vastly underrated. Cook, Strauss, Trott and Collingwood are all "nuggetty", possessing moxy. Bell - not so much, but with elegance and talent in spades. Pietersen had another quality altogether, but we won't mention him.
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Old 16th July 2017, 19:19   #194
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5 of 9 wickets to spin can't help think Root could have gambled on Ali and Dawson a little more a little earlier. My 10 pounds at 13/1 on Ali to be leading wicket taker for England wasn't a bad investment.
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Old 16th July 2017, 19:21   #195
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... My 10 pounds at 13/1 on Ali to be leading wicket taker for England wasn't a bad investment.
It was a waste of 10 pounds if that's what you mean.
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Old 16th July 2017, 19:26   #196
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Not if it was for the innings.
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Old 16th July 2017, 19:27   #197
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Not if it was for the innings.
Indeed, hadn't thought of that. Mad odds if that's the case.
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Old 16th July 2017, 20:02   #198
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Indeed, hadn't thought of that. Mad odds if that's the case.
True. Still not bad even if for the series, he's bumped his tally up to 14 and put more space between him and Anderson who is now on 12.

The only thing standing between England and defeat is the weather, can't see them making 400 and can't see them hanging around two days. Reckon it may be over, weather permitting, by not long before close at the latest. Any spells where 2-3 wickets fall will just push England into mental despair, 5-11 managed 82 runs between them 1st innings of which Bairstow made the majority and only just more than Root made on his own.

In theory the middle order has plenty of batting, and the lower order bats deep, but Dawson and Broad don't look up to much, the latter did make 57no 1st Test but his previous score of more than 20 was back in December 2015, and whilst Wood and Anderson can hang around and be more than a nuisance, I wouldn't be counting on the tail to wag once the chips are down - delay the inevitable a little maybe if the top order get them up around 250.

Will be the eighth time in 33 Tests they've won a Test and lost the next one, reckon they should dump (dead)Wood and Dawson, bring in a a batsman and either Finn or more likely TRJ

Probably give Jennings and Ballance at least one more Test, maybe even both remaining ones, although a very low score by either might see England try and reinforce the top order. May well be Ballance's last crack at Test cricket so he needs to put some runs on the board very soon if not sooner, or is he to be another Ramps who can boss the county scene and come back, and back, and back, although in fairness to Ballance he didn't take 22 Tests to get his first hundred and has more hundreds (4) in 22 Tests than Ramps got in 52 (2) - and near as many fifties and hundreds combined (11 vs 12)
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Old 16th July 2017, 21:50   #199
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5 of 9 wickets to spin can't help think Root could have gambled on Ali and Dawson a little more a little earlier. My 10 pounds at 13/1 on Ali to be leading wicket taker for England wasn't a bad investment.
Was it not more to do with SA going for runs ? when they were in grind mode the spin was innocuous.

Maharajah will take a bundle tomorrow probably with men round the bar.
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Old 16th July 2017, 22:17   #200
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That temperament factor is vastly underrated. Cook, Strauss, Trott and Collingwood are all "nuggetty", possessing moxy. Bell - not so much, but with elegance and talent in spades. Pietersen had another quality altogether, but we won't mention him.
Bell had a fair bit of talent but was easily the most frustrating player to have played for England in the last 20 years or so. Much better to lampoon him and his biggest fans rather than get frustrated in any case!
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