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Old 16th July 2017, 10:53   #161
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Originally Posted by luckyluke View Post
Thought Ballance looked very scratchy tbh, not much came out of the middle.
Unlike others, he did stay there long enough for that opinion to be formed, whether one agrees with it or not. He got a good delivery and was a little unfortunate in the manner of his dismissal.
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Old 16th July 2017, 11:24   #162
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If Woakes is fit for OT, I think there's a strong likelihood that England will drop Dawson and replace him with a number 3. Probably either Stoneman or Malan I'd imagine. Then they could push Ballance down to 5, which seems only fair to him, as he never bats at 3 in the championship. I do think he and Jennings will be out of the side before the 1st test vs WI if they don't put on a score soon.
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Old 16th July 2017, 11:29   #163
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Unlike others, he did stay there long enough for that opinion to be formed, whether one agrees with it or not. He got a good delivery and was a little unfortunate in the manner of his dismissal.
Playing on off the inside edge is really no more unfortunate than being caught behind off the outside edge. It was a decent ball but one that you'd expect a Test number three to deal with.
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Old 16th July 2017, 11:31   #164
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England miss a wicket which would have been out on DRS review.

Broad has no-one but himself to blame. He's nearly as bad as Shane Watson.
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Old 16th July 2017, 11:55   #165
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South Africa's bits and pieces players did rather well.
Specialists Elgar , Amla, Morkel and the spinner have done alright - as well as big Phil.

Englands two best players ? Jimmy and Joe....
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Old 16th July 2017, 12:35   #166
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Dawson is one of the worst players I've seen play for England. Absolute garbage.
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Old 16th July 2017, 12:39   #167
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Specialists Elgar , Amla, Morkel and the spinner have done alright - as well as big Phil.

Englands two best players ? Jimmy and Joe....
Morris too. runs and wickets.
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Old 16th July 2017, 12:51   #168
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Dawson is one of the worst players I've seen play for England. Absolute garbage.
Yeah but his batting is better than Rashid apparently.....
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Old 16th July 2017, 12:52   #169
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Predictions for England's 4th innings effort? I'm going to go with 200.
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Old 16th July 2017, 12:54   #170
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I've been trying to manufacture a scenario in my head where England can still win this match but I'm struggling. Instead I'll have to settle for reasons to be cheerful.

1. I'm at the best ground in the country.
2. It's dry but overcast.
3. Broad and Anderson love bowling here.
4. I'll get to see QDK bat.
5. I've just seen Superstar Samit Patel. What an honour.
Try to enjoy being at TB instead of moaning on here. I was there yesterday, I thought England's batting was as **** as everyone else but I tried to enjoy the day out! They serve harvest pale at the club bar near the hound stand
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Old 16th July 2017, 12:55   #171
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Predictions for England's 4th innings effort? I'm going to go with 200.
5.17 pm tonight.
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Old 16th July 2017, 12:59   #172
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The top 3 aren't bits and pieces players
Nor are 2 of the 3 fully established and currently fully functioning batsmen.

Ballance is having his third bash at Tests, scored 1019 runs @ 67.93 in his first 10 Tests and only 475 runs @ 12.18 since. In that time his average has plummeted by 29 runs to a fairly modest 38.31

Jennings is only in his 4th Test but despite scoring 112 in his 1st innings he has scored only 96 runs since @ 16.00 and his average currently 29.71



Point being that's hardly the (recent) record you'd want from two of your only four out and out specialist batsman when fielding a long and theoretically deep middle and lower order..

Maybe Jennings is early in his career, but that's part of the point so can only be used as an excuse. Ballance hasn't strictly speaking failed in any of his evenly spaced innings of 20, 27 and 34 this series, but nor has he made enough of them as you might hope.
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Old 16th July 2017, 13:19   #173
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You don't really need to do any sums to see that Jennings and Ballance's places are in the team are less than certain. Cook's having a fairly quiet series so far too. This so-called rejuvenation could do with kicking in.
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Old 16th July 2017, 13:19   #174
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When you play bits n pieces players you get bits of series where it all falls to pieces..
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We all know the tried and tested method for England to react to a batting collapse - drop a bowler.

Dawson will be out for the third test. Is Woakes fit yet ?

I was looking at recent England results in Tests, the one series stands out and one of only two England have won, they played only five bowlers..............

vs SAF 15/16

Won - Finn, Broad, Woakes, Stokes, Ali
Drew - Finn, Broad, Anderson, Stokes, Ali
Won - Finn, Broad, Anderson, Stokes, Ali
Lost - Woakes, Broad, Anderson, Stokes, Ali

A lot of the travails England have had have been since insisting on playing six bowling options, including an embarrassing Test defeat in Bangladesh and a limp series effort in India.

Against Sri Lanka (W2-0) England played Finn, Broad, Anderson, Woakes and Ali in the 2nd and 3rd with Woakes replacing Stokes from the 1st. The drawn series against Pakistan was five bowlers, can put that draw down to the volatile nature of Pakistan.


Having too many players who bat and can bowl, or bowl and can bat leaves you too much scope for players doing neither (Stokes and Dawson barely on the radar this series) and not enough batsmen in the top order to compensate.

And I'd rather see Anderson, Broad and a n other bowling their share with Ali or a different spinner taking up some of the workload so that England's main wicket threat aren't watching whilst some low threat bowlers bowl nearly as many overs.

Anderson and Broad had bowled around about 40% of the overs in the series before this morning, compared to 43% by Stokes, Wood, Dawson and Jennings (1 over) To make the point Anderson and Broad had taken 14 of the 31 wickets compared to just 7 by the others.

And take the two wicket takers who had 19 to their name and they'd bowled 39% of the overs having taken 61% of the wickets. It's like playing six strikers when only 2 or 3 score regularly and watching the defence struggle and ship goals when you need a result.

If England follow up their win with a loss it will be the third time in a row, and England have only won two Tests in a row three times since winning three in a row against India in 2014. Might not sound toooo bad, but they've played 33 Tests since - and in the same period this would be an EIGHTH time England have lost the Test after winning one.

Test wins followed by defeats since winning three in a row against India

vs West Indies 14/15
vs New Zealand 2015
vs Australia 2015 (1st > 2nd Test)
vs Australia 2015 (4th > 5th Test)
vs South Africa 15/16
vs Pakistan 2016
vs Bangladesh 16/17
vs South Africa 2017 ?
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Old 16th July 2017, 13:25   #175
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You don't really need to do any sums to see that Jennings and Ballance's places are in the team are less than certain.
Well I could say "duh", it's fairly obvious their places are less than certain considering the amount of debate as to who would be picked and they almost defaulted in, incumbent from last Test in India and scoring piles of runs in county cricket respectively. Does help show how well or badly they are doing though

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Cook's having a fairly quiet series so far too. This so-called rejuvenation could do with kicking in.
Won't help having a less than settled opening partner, nor looking at the batting order and seeing not a lot of solidity.

And to do some more sums that don't really need doing apparently :- Cook's last 11 innings : 293 runs @ 26.64, that's since he scored 130 in India. Take a top 3 that isn't "bits n pieces" but batting a bit(s n pieces) like it then you are asking a middle order after Root to do a lot.
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Old 16th July 2017, 13:43   #176
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Playing on off the inside edge is really no more unfortunate than being caught behind off the outside edge. It was a decent ball but one that you'd expect a Test number three to deal with.
That has been an issue I have had with commentators for years. Why is it "unlucky" to be caught keeper down the leg side for example? Maybe run out backing up is a tad unfortunate. Before DRS or at lower levels you can get bad umpiring decisions.
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Old 16th July 2017, 13:48   #177
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Ballance is unlucky that his technique is too poor to bat at 3, or arguably at all in international cricket
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Old 16th July 2017, 14:28   #178
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Old 16th July 2017, 14:29   #179
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Predictions for England's 4th innings effort? I'm going to go with 200.
110
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Old 16th July 2017, 14:37   #180
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Ballance is unlucky that his technique is too poor to bat at 3, or arguably at all in international cricket
Possibly. He is massively better when a bit of shine has gone off the ball.
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