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Old 26th July 2017, 21:57   #121
JRC67
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Originally Posted by James Zebrorter View Post
The rumblings are that they are going to go with Dawson so we'll see how it pans out.

Hoping TRJ can step up and very excited for Tom Westley. He and Cook will be batting together in no time so hopefully he can just pretend he's at Chelmsford and get a good start.

Losing Wood and Ballance to injury has been a blessing though.
Whether it's been a blessing very much depends on how well the replacements fair. There isn't clear evidence that any of the 2/3 new players are significant upgrades on the players they are replacing. It'll be interesting to see how they go. It must be 3 years since a test player came in and made the positive sustained impact that was hoped for. Hameed looked promising and Woakes obviously returned a far better player in that period, but it's been a long period of dashed hopes and expectations.

Let's hope at least one goes on to have at least a reasonable test career.
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Old 26th July 2017, 22:39   #122
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I think it's definitely a blessing. Ballance was only in the team anyway because the system can be bent by the captain. We should have been trying out someone new from the start of the series rather than returning to a players whose technique is inadequate and unimproved. If Westley fails in two tests we'll find ourselves at the end of the series where we should be right now. As for Wood, I think it was fair enough to give him first crack in this series since his reputation had ballooned since his previous test, but he's been a waste of space as far as wickets are concerned and it's hard to imagine anyone doing significantly worse, especially as we don't need a fourth seamer anyway. Again, if the replacement doesn't make an impact we'll have discovered something about TRJ that we already know about Wood, so that'll be progress. Truth be told I think both Ballance and Wood could probably have been declared fit to play had they been worth picking.
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Old 26th July 2017, 23:23   #123
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Agree Sans, although it's hard to be sure that the injuries aren't real rather than "convenient". Certainly they're convenient for England to move on from two players who've been real duds this series so far and more importantly (as two tests isn't that long), in Ballance's case for a painfully long time over three incarnations in the side, without anything like the gap between them that all sense would have suggested. I could understand them having persisted with him when he was instead first dropped, although I wouldn't have agreed with it but bringing him back looked stupid both times.

Actually, on the original decision to drop him, it was a bold call, based I think on his technique looking shot against good pace bowling. That they kept bringing him back despite his technique not having improved is just odd.
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Old 27th July 2017, 01:01   #124
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I never agreed with the Ballance selection ... but South Africa are arguably the most dangerous team in English conditions. The selectors must have felt they picked the strongest side they could for the first test so jettisoning players after one good and one poor test for the team as a whole wouldn't be the way I would go. If one has an employee who has a bad month in the office you don't look to fire them, you would sit down and make it clear things need to improve. There isnt a stand out candidate for any batting position, if you did a straw poll of who should be in the batting line up you'd probably get a spread of about 9 names. What we don't want is a return to the revolving door culture. I'd rather we stick with a player I don't like for 4 or 5 games and see what happens.
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Old 27th July 2017, 02:18   #125
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Root should bat 4. I think that is where he wants to bat. Stokes should bat 5. Ali 6. Bairstow 7. Cook and Jennings will probably open. Wood, Broad and Jimmy (if fit) are the 9, 10, J. So that leaves 3 and 8.

Westley, Malan, Dawson, RoJo for 2 slots then.

I have nothing specifically against Dawson, I just don't see why he gets in ahead of Rashid.

My team. from the squad would be:

1. Cook? - Solid enough to still be one of the best opening bats in the world

2 Jennings? - yet to convince.

3. Westley? - don't know enough to comment.

4. Root

5, 6. 7 ? Usual suspects.

8. RoJo

Wood, Jimmy, Broad.
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Old 27th July 2017, 07:22   #126
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BBC reported the team won't be decided until they've assessed the pitch, but announced a few days ago Westley would make his debut and (yesterday) TRJ would play, so that only leaves one spot surely....?

Toss up between Dawson and Malan I reckon, I'd hope they'll see the flaws in six bowlers from the lack of batting return to date - 233, 205 and 133 when Root hasn't taken his chances and made 190.

Malan seems an odd pick, suspect he may bat 6 or 7, can't see Stokes wanting to bat down at 7 or Bairstow and perhaps the problem is the selectors keeping faith in some players and trying to keep others happy. As odd as Malan's pick does appear, he is the only practical alternative to another side overladen with bowling options. My faith in Ali's batting extends to him batting 6 or 7 (in England), 8 is a waste but hey ho

Ali averages 68.55 batting 7, a slightly false average at the moment, but someone half capable down the order is likely to add a few not outs and any big score not out skew the figures early career (14 innings). He only averages 28.06 batting at 8, from more innings, and the only other slots he averages above 22 is from fewer than 10 innings.

Problem is he's batted half his innings at 7 or 8, no more than 1/6 elsewhere and any decent average elsewhere is boosted by more than half his runs there coming in the one innings.......... (can't base where someone should bat on them scoring one hundred there, at best, and not a lot else)
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Old 27th July 2017, 08:02   #127
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BBC reported the team won't be decided until they've assessed the pitch, but announced a few days ago Westley would make his debut and (yesterday) TRJ would play, so that only leaves one spot surely....?

Toss up between Dawson and Malan I reckon, I'd hope they'll see the flaws in six bowlers from the lack of batting return to date - 233, 205 and 133 when Root hasn't taken his chances and made 190.

Malan seems an odd pick, suspect he may bat 6 or 7, can't see Stokes wanting to bat down at 7 or Bairstow and perhaps the problem is the selectors keeping faith in some players and trying to keep others happy. As odd as Malan's pick does appear, he is the only practical alternative to another side overladen with bowling options. My faith in Ali's batting extends to him batting 6 or 7 (in England), 8 is a waste but hey ho

Ali averages 68.55 batting 7, a slightly false average at the moment, but someone half capable down the order is likely to add a few not outs and any big score not out skew the figures early career (14 innings). He only averages 28.06 batting at 8, from more innings, and the only other slots he averages above 22 is from fewer than 10 innings.

Problem is he's batted half his innings at 7 or 8, no more than 1/6 elsewhere and any decent average elsewhere is boosted by more than half his runs there coming in the one innings.......... (can't base where someone should bat on them scoring one hundred there, at best, and not a lot else)
4 and 5 he's batted 12 times ... 2 50s 2 100s.

England have plenty of dashed in the side, where we struggle is application at times. Whether Malan has changed this season I don't know but essentially he is another dashed.
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Old 27th July 2017, 08:04   #128
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Has to be bat first here..or am I out off date...weather may play a big part. Intriguing test this one. Both sides have won one easily..Juan. Won One..eh Juan?

Why did the Mexican restaurant go bust?

Because they only had Juan Eater.
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Old 27th July 2017, 08:49   #129
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Why should either miss out? Surely TRJ is a straight replacement for Wood, although Finn would be a better like for like replacement. Wonder if he'll join the one test wonders club.
Amazingly if they don't play Malan because..

A) We got smashed in the last game due to a shortage of runs.

B) We've won 2 out of 10 or is it 11 ?

C) not being able to play Malan as batting 8 is too low because we can't shuffle about the allegedly strong but in reality patchy middle order would be prime Bayliss era nonsense. So he probably won't play.
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Old 27th July 2017, 09:30   #130
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Let's hope Amla doesn't do as well as in '12
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Old 27th July 2017, 09:33   #131
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Does Stokes deserve to bat above seven anyway? He's hardly performing like a top five or six batsman.

Is TRJ good enough? I'm just a little concerned that he might be the typical English seamer who when pitched up a level gets found out. Does he have truly exceptional control, the ability to move it at will or a real knock out bouncer or the ability to up his pace a yard or two when required?
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Old 27th July 2017, 09:43   #132
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For me the two fixtures in the middle order should be Stokes at 6 and Bairstow at 7. That is what has provided the strength in the past. If Malan plays he should bat at 5.
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Old 27th July 2017, 10:00   #133
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For me the two fixtures in the middle order should be Stokes at 6 and Bairstow at 7. That is what has provided the strength in the past. If Malan plays he should bat at 5.
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Old 27th July 2017, 10:15   #134
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Feels like a bit of a watershed test match. Almost as if Root and the management have accepted a poor two years and they're starting again with some new players.
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Old 27th July 2017, 10:23   #135
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Malan plays and Cricinfo think he will bat 5 with Bairstow switching to 7 and Mo at 8......that almost sounds like some common sense has been applied!!
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Old 27th July 2017, 10:37   #136
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Malan plays and Cricinfo think he will bat 5 with Bairstow switching to 7 and Mo at 8......that almost sounds like some common sense has been applied!!
having Mo as low as 8 is ridiculous.
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Old 27th July 2017, 10:38   #137
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Toss won and bat first.

Gonna call the 4th over for when Essex have two batsmen at the crease for England.

Be first time since '09 won't it?
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Old 27th July 2017, 10:38   #138
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England win toss and bat. Watching build up it may have been best to field. 100th Oval test match.
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Old 27th July 2017, 10:40   #139
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I'm posting this in the hope that I won't have to quote it in an hour's time when we're 30-3.
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Old 27th July 2017, 10:47   #140
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having Mo as low as 8 is ridiculous.
Not as ridiculous as him batting 7 with just bowlers to come.
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