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Old 27th July 2017, 12:06   #161
Sir Coolerking
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I think most of the no. 8s in world cricket are probably better bowlers than Moeen. It's a bowling position. Rashid would be a better no. 8 than Moeen. Yes, of course, all other things being equal, you'd take the better batsman at 8. But when he's being picked in preference to a better bowler, Moeen at 8 is simply an admission that the people picked as batsmen can't do the job properly. Why are you so keen to present a weakness as a strength?
But Moeen is being picked as a bowler/all rounder. He wouldn't get in the team as a batsman. He is currently our best spinner until someone proves otherwise (and no one has).
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Old 27th July 2017, 12:10   #162
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But Moeen is being picked as a bowler/all rounder. He wouldn't get in the team as a batsman. He is currently our best spinner until someone proves otherwise (and no one has).
I think he does get into the team as a batsman, just.
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Old 27th July 2017, 12:14   #163
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I think he does get into the team as a batsman, just.
If Ali didn't bowl, he'd never get into the team. He only got into the side due to his bowling on a lions tour.

Tom Westley spoke about his simple game plan before the game and he has a certainly backing that up. Leave outside off and hit straight deliveries through the leg side. Very Trottesque. I like guys who know their game and look assured. Early days but good so far.
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Old 27th July 2017, 12:16   #164
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Anyone watching Jenning's tortuous stay would know that I was clearly being ironic. He looks welly out of his depth.
You were saying the same things about Steve Smith.

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Ballance's selection was reported rather early in the season, as a byproduct of Root's elevation. I don't think his county runs did anything apart from lend a thin veneer of respectability to what was basically a bent pick. After all, it's fairly normal for people who've been proved not to be quite good enough for test cricket, and who aren't Ian Bell, to make lots of runs in the CC.

Yes, two tests won't be enough to judge Westley on. That's why he (or some other debutant hopeful) should have been playing since the beginning of the series. The Ballance selection simply wasted time.
There's a lot of runs and then there's averaging 100 as Ballance was.

The likes of Ramps and Hick were given 50+ tests. Ballance had played 21 (and had produced more in the international arena than either of them).

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I think most of the no. 8s in world cricket are probably better bowlers than Moeen. It's a bowling position. Rashid would be a better no. 8 than Moeen. Yes, of course, all other things being equal, you'd take the better batsman at 8. But when he's being picked in preference to a better bowler, Moeen at 8 is simply an admission that the people picked as batsmen can't do the job properly. Why are you so keen to present a weakness as a strength?
I'd rather one strength and one weakness rather than two weaknesses.

Moeen's as good (if not better) bowler than all the alternative spin bowlers tried.

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But Moeen is being picked as a bowler/all rounder. He wouldn't get in the team as a batsman. He is currently our best spinner until someone proves otherwise (and no one has).
Have you seen our batting line-up?
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 27th July 2017, 12:17   #165
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Old 27th July 2017, 12:20   #166
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This must rank as one of the worst England XI's in years - Jennings, Malan, Westley, and Roland Jones: not one of them good enough to play test cricket.
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Old 27th July 2017, 12:28   #167
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Wesley..new Star? (Trek)
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Old 27th July 2017, 12:36   #168
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Get out
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Old 27th July 2017, 12:38   #169
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Wesley..new Star? (Trek)
Is Busted Keaton now going to be Diein' (test career) Keaton? I'll get my coat ...
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Old 27th July 2017, 12:42   #170
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This must rank as one of the worst England XI's in years - Jennings, Malan, Westley, and Roland Jones: not one of them good enough to play test cricket.
Really? A little early to tell for sure on the debutants, I'd say. Though I do have my concerns with TRJ.

Westley has looked more assured than Cook this morning. Chef has been very scratchy yet again.
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Old 27th July 2017, 12:59   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Coolerking View Post
... Moeen ... is currently our best spinner until someone proves otherwise (and no one has).
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Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
... Moeen's as good (if not better) bowler than all the alternative spin bowlers tried. ...
I don't think this is true. It's just a line that's trotted out when people want to stick with Moeen.

Over the course of their tests played together, Rashid has shown that he's probably the better bowler. Details are in post #3538 on p. 177 of the "Selection Panel V" thread. At the very least the situation would call for some more investigation, were we to really want to select our best spin bowler.

In home tests, on the other hand, it's almost impossible for any spinner other than Moeen to be selected, because Moeen is already in the team on account of his batting, and it's immoral to play 2 spinners at home. So it would be almost impossible for anyone to "prove otherwise" in a home test, which are apparently the only ones that matter. Should there be any exceptions (e.g., we're up against a team with better seamers than us and so the special measure of a reprehensible pitch is required in order to steal an advantage), it is imperative to pick a spinner (e.g. Dawson) other than the one who is seriously suspected of being better than Ali (i.e. Rashid), and then to drop him quite quickly for not being as good as Ali, and then to consider the case closed.
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Old 27th July 2017, 13:02   #172
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I don't think this is true. It's just a line that's trotted out when people want to stick with Moeen.

Over the course of their tests played together, Rashid has shown that he's probably the better bowler. Details are in post #3538 on p. 177 of the "Selection Panel V" thread. At the very least the situation would call for some more investigation, were we to really want to select our best spin bowler.

In home tests, on the other hand, it's almost impossible for any spinner other than Moeen to be selected, because Moeen is already in the team on account of his batting, and it's immoral to play 2 spinners at home. So it would be almost impossible for anyone to "prove otherwise" in a home test, which are apparently the only ones that matter. Should there be any exceptions (e.g., we're up against a team with better seamers than us and so the special measure of a reprehensible pitch is required in order to steal an advantage), it is imperative to pick a spinner (e.g. Dawson) other than the one who is seriously suspected of being better than Ali (i.e. Rashid), and then to drop him quite quickly for not being as good as Ali, and then to consider the case closed.
Except Ali averages 38 and Rashid 42 in test cricket.
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Old 27th July 2017, 13:04   #173
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Old 27th July 2017, 13:08   #174
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Except Ali averages 38 and Rashid 42 in test cricket.
Tredwell averages 29 in test cricket, Borthwick 21. And your point is?
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Old 27th July 2017, 13:11   #175
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This must rank as one of the worst England XI's in years - Jennings, Malan, Westley, and Roland Jones: not one of them good enough to play test cricket.
Yup
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Old 27th July 2017, 13:27   #176
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We must have played virtually a full team of debutants since the start of last winter.

Bayliss taking Equal Opportunities a bit too far.
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Speaking to Geoff Cook today they may released Mark Wood from Durham. He rates him but the kid has had an operation and maybe one too many bowlers on the books type deal.
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Old 27th July 2017, 13:29   #177
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Lets face it . We have been looking for another opening bat and a number 3 since Trott left. To my mind, Hameed looked the best, but sadly .....

As for who should bat 5,6,7,8, Stokes, Ali, Bairstow get 3 of the positions and the chances are that Woakes will get the nod if/when fit. Don't really think it makes much difference tbh.

At the risk of banjaxing it, Cook is looking good, Westley sound and the Saffers aren't really bowling well. Time for lunch. I wouldn't complain if they were 132-1 at tea.
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Old 27th July 2017, 13:36   #178
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At the risk of banjaxing it, Cook is looking good, Westley sound and the Saffers aren't really bowling well. Time for lunch. I wouldn't complain if they were 132-1 at tea.

You banjaxed it. New dawn of English cricket #3432322 is wobbling a little; Westley out, and we're down to our key pair.

However, no 30-3, so I'm chuffed.

Let's hope these two are still batting at tea
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Old 27th July 2017, 13:36   #179
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Westley has gone the way of the dodo.
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Old 27th July 2017, 13:37   #180
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Yup
Question to ask is who is better, not how crap the current selections are. Westley gone. Cook and Root in now.
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