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Old 3rd August 2007, 09:50   #61
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I really do not know why S.A is still clinging to these archaic quota laws. I know this is probably a sensitive topic hence i approach with caution. Why can not players be selected on merit? is that not enough?
"Enough" isn't really the issue.

However this article is from an Afrikaaner paper quoting some "word in the corridors" rumour and we don't know the source or their agenda. The fact that black players will be picked in the squad (which hasn't been submitted let alone resubmitted) doesn't mean they are there as a quota.
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Old 3rd August 2007, 13:47   #62
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I think the difficult thing here is that like the WC, if the team doesn't taste success, the performances will be dissected and scapegoats will be sought. The bottom line is though that not picking your 'best available' team has to be a factor in analysing a team's success in a major tournament. Yet nothing I read in WC post-mortems ever referred to the fact that SA is the only country which can't pick its best team.

I will feel sorry for a bloke like Johan van der Wath if he again misses the cut because of quotas.
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Old 3rd August 2007, 16:54   #63
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http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/south...ry/305414.html

Hmmm...not sure how I feel about this yet, we'll have to see how things go.
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Old 6th August 2007, 14:30   #64
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http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/south...ry/305717.html

SA 'A' side to tour Zimbo. Very happy to see Abdullah and Boats in there, as well as Imran Khan...though I imagine they mean Imraan Khan who I've heard very little of.
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Old 6th August 2007, 14:31   #65
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Justin Ontong, he just doesn't go away does he?
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Old 6th August 2007, 14:35   #66
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Justin Ontong, he just doesn't go away does he?
I wish he would
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Old 6th August 2007, 14:45   #67
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What's the background to this tour, RLS? The RSA squad seems a pretty strange mix with Prince, Hall and Nel in there alongside Ontong and the like.

Surely a full strength 'A' team would have guys like Morne Morkel, Dale Steyn, JP Duminy and Vernon Philander in the ranks?
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Old 6th August 2007, 14:46   #68
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http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/south...ry/305717.html

SA 'A' side to tour Zimbo. Very happy to see Abdullah and Boats in there, as well as Imran Khan...though I imagine they mean Imraan Khan who I've heard very little of.
The 'A' side has some pretty strong non-'A' players like Hall, Langeveldt, Nel and Prince. Interesting/horrifying/downright depressing to see Dipenaar is captain. He's done a job for us in the past but I think we'd be taking a huge step back if we ever had to pick him for the main squad again. I also would have like to see De Wet having a go though Botha is also quite promising.

I heard a bit of Imraan when he first hit the scene a couple of years ago taking a few wickets with spin and making some good runs up the order. The was a lot of talk generated but he seemed to disappear off the radar since.

I see we may lose the prospect of Mclaren in the next 2 weeks as well, not being able to play for England until he's 28 in 4 years time being the only sticking point
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Old 6th August 2007, 15:04   #69
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The 'A' side has some pretty strong non-'A' players like Hall, Langeveldt, Nel and Prince. Interesting/horrifying/downright depressing to see Dipenaar is captain. He's done a job for us in the past but I think we'd be taking a huge step back if we ever had to pick him for the main squad again. I also would have like to see De Wet having a go though Botha is also quite promising.

I heard a bit of Imraan when he first hit the scene a couple of years ago taking a few wickets with spin and making some good runs up the order. The was a lot of talk generated but he seemed to disappear off the radar since.

I see we may lose the prospect of Mclaren in the next 2 weeks as well, not being able to play for England until he's 28 in 4 years time being the only sticking point
Know how you feel - Warwickshire had him on trial and he scored a not out double hundred. Not good enough for us. Presumably the same scout who rejected KP. We also seem to have ruined Harris.

Last edited by Kim : 6th August 2007 at 15:23.
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Old 6th August 2007, 16:11   #70
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What's the background to this tour, RLS? The RSA squad seems a pretty strange mix with Prince, Hall and Nel in there alongside Ontong and the like.

Surely a full strength 'A' team would have guys like Morne Morkel, Dale Steyn, JP Duminy and Vernon Philander in the ranks?
Lord knows. There was meant to be a tour to Zimbo as a precursor to the 2020 WC, but I'm doubting this has any tie-ins with that (unless perhaps those within the 2020 squad have been kept back from this tour as the two tours would clash...hmm). In fact I imagine that is it, this team has probably been picked from those who are unlikely to make the final 2020 team, and hence avoid any clashes with their respective warm-ups. Either way it's a bid hodge-podge, I suppose at a push you could call it some fringe players + SA 'A', but there are some exceptions as you say, so I imagine the previous reason is most likely, though personally I'd prefer to see JP in this team.
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Old 6th August 2007, 16:58   #71
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Wonder what Ryan McLaren's first class performances have been like in South Africa? Is he regarded as being on the fringes of the Test and ODI teams? If so, I'd hope that he takes his chances in the South African set-up.

Waiting until age 28 to qualify for an adopted country seems to be a waste of talent to me.
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Old 6th August 2007, 23:11   #72
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Wonder what Ryan McLaren's first class performances have been like in South Africa? Is he regarded as being on the fringes of the Test and ODI teams? If so, I'd hope that he takes his chances in the South African set-up.

Waiting until age 28 to qualify for an adopted country seems to be a waste of talent to me.
Hat-trick apart I was not that impressed with what I saw of him on saturday.
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Old 6th August 2007, 23:23   #73
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Wonder what Ryan McLaren's first class performances have been like in South Africa? Is he regarded as being on the fringes of the Test and ODI teams? If so, I'd hope that he takes his chances in the South African set-up.

Waiting until age 28 to qualify for an adopted country seems to be a waste of talent to me.
he was very good last year i think and in the the top 3 or 4 wicket takers, i really hope he does come back to us because i think he certainly has a lot of talent.

mean while an A squad has been announced:

Squad
Boeta Dippenaar (capt), Yusuf Abdullah, Hashim Amla, Johan Botha, Andrew Hall, Paul Harris, Imran Khan, Charl Langeveldt, Andrč Nel, Justin Ontong, Alviro Petersen, Ashwell Prince, Thami Tsolekile (wk), Mornč van Wyk.

Det Wet has been dropped which i can't say i'm to impressed by, i mean do we really need Langeveldt in an A squad??? in fact there are some rather ridiculous names there like; Dippenaar, Prince and Hall. Why are these players in an A squad???

we need to show these younger guys that they will get chances rather than picking people like Prince and Hall who are first time players, before they all jump ship!

why is Kuhn not the keeper??? Where is Duminy??? Du Plessis???, why not give these guys a chance afterall its only Zimbabwe!!!!
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Old 6th August 2007, 23:25   #74
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Justin Ontong, he just doesn't go away does he?
good player.
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Old 7th August 2007, 00:20   #75
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he was very good last year i think and in the the top 3 or 4 wicket takers, i really hope he does come back to us because i think he certainly has a lot of talent.

mean while an A squad has been announced:

Squad
Boeta Dippenaar (capt), Yusuf Abdullah, Hashim Amla, Johan Botha, Andrew Hall, Paul Harris, Imran Khan, Charl Langeveldt, Andrč Nel, Justin Ontong, Alviro Petersen, Ashwell Prince, Thami Tsolekile (wk), Mornč van Wyk.

Det Wet has been dropped which i can't say i'm to impressed by, i mean do we really need Langeveldt in an A squad??? in fact there are some rather ridiculous names there like; Dippenaar, Prince and Hall. Why are these players in an A squad???

we need to show these younger guys that they will get chances rather than picking people like Prince and Hall who are first time players, before they all jump ship!

why is Kuhn not the keeper??? Where is Duminy??? Du Plessis???, why not give these guys a chance afterall its only Zimbabwe!!!!
Thats a not a full strength squad by any means. Not sure why Morne Morkel and few others arent in the squad. Strange decision that.
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Old 7th August 2007, 09:20   #76
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he was very good last year i think and in the the top 3 or 4 wicket takers, i really hope he does come back to us because i think he certainly has a lot of talent.

mean while an A squad has been announced:

Squad
Boeta Dippenaar (capt), Yusuf Abdullah, Hashim Amla, Johan Botha, Andrew Hall, Paul Harris, Imran Khan, Charl Langeveldt, Andrč Nel, Justin Ontong, Alviro Petersen, Ashwell Prince, Thami Tsolekile (wk), Mornč van Wyk.

Det Wet has been dropped which i can't say i'm to impressed by, i mean do we really need Langeveldt in an A squad??? in fact there are some rather ridiculous names there like; Dippenaar, Prince and Hall. Why are these players in an A squad???

we need to show these younger guys that they will get chances rather than picking people like Prince and Hall who are first time players, before they all jump ship!

why is Kuhn not the keeper??? Where is Duminy??? Du Plessis???, why not give these guys a chance afterall its only Zimbabwe!!!!
I thought Van Wyk was a keeper.

As for the rest I can only imagine they're trying to get people into gear for the new season. We also have some full ODIs coming up against Zim where others might get a chance. Otherwise it's really stupid to send such senior players on such a tour.
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Old 7th August 2007, 10:42   #77
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From what I understand, the selectors have basically said that anyone selected for the 'A' squad to Zimbabwe won't be in the 20/20 WC. The ODI's late August are apparently intended to prepare the squad selected for the WC so none of the names in the aformentioned squad will be there. Some selector mentioned that they wanted players warmed up for the season proper given that SA leave for Pakistan on a test tour immediately after the 20/20 carnival. Presumably Prince, Hall et al will be in that team.

From the noises being made some young players like Philander, Duminy and Morkel might make your 20/20 team. For eg. if Hall, Nel and Langeveldt are missing from the bowling line-up, there will have to be others to support Pollock, Ntini and the likes of Kallis who'll bowl the odd over or two. They may not entrust the potentially wayward Steyn with the task, yet Morkel who can also hit would be a reasonable bet.

They may have also included the odd experienced player in the 'A' team to counterbalance the youth factor. I can't understand the choice of Dippeanaar as captain though, especially as Prince has led the Proteas before.


And the link to the McLaren decision. England has to take some responsibility for enticing players from SA, particularly with Key openly courting him.

Kolpak status should be reserved for what it was intended; players genuinely disadvantaged in terms of selection. There is nothing to suggest that McLaren as. This especially so in a country which tends to produce a lot of all-rounder types.
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Old 7th August 2007, 11:34   #78
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From what I understand, the selectors have basically said that anyone selected for the 'A' squad to Zimbabwe won't be in the 20/20 WC. The ODI's late August are apparently intended to prepare the squad selected for the WC so none of the names in the aformentioned squad will be there. Some selector mentioned that they wanted players warmed up for the season proper given that SA leave for Pakistan on a test tour immediately after the 20/20 carnival. Presumably Prince, Hall et al will be in that team

From the noises being made some young players like Philander, Duminy and Morkel might make your 20/20 team. For eg. if Hall, Nel and Langeveldt are missing from the bowling line-up, there will have to be others to support Pollock, Ntini and the likes of Kallis who'll bowl the odd over or two. They may not entrust the potentially wayward Steyn with the task, yet Morkel who can also hit would be a reasonable bet.
I had heard that mentioned though I had thought Nel, Langeveldt and Hall would be considered for the WC. Maybe they are going to give more of the youngsters like those you mentioned a chance. I hope so.

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They may have also included the odd experienced player in the 'A' team to counterbalance the youth factor. I can't understand the choice of Dippeanaar as captain though, especially as Prince has led the Proteas before.
The odd experienced player in the 'A' tour is necessary, but I think that they need to use players that could make it back into the 1st team squad and it worries my that dipenaar is there. Ontong isn't actually that bad.

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And the link to the McLaren decision. England has to take some responsibility for enticing players from SA, particularly with Key openly courting him.

Kolpak status should be reserved for what it was intended; players genuinely disadvantaged in terms of selection. There is nothing to suggest that McLaren as. This especially so in a country which tends to produce a lot of all-rounder types.
We've been through this debate a few time so I won't get into that. I just wanted to express my disappointment. If he were to choose SA and was to get selected I would support him though it will feel hollow knowing he doesn't really care about being there.
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Old 7th August 2007, 12:51   #79
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I agree about Dippenaar. I believe he's proven that he's not quite up to test level, at least in terms of being a consistent contributor, or one who makes run in difficult circumstances. It would be better for you to go with youth if one of the incumbents needs replacing. Personally I believe Amla should be in this category as well.

Also he might still cut it in ODI's to an extent but he tends to be too slow on many occasions. It seems to me you have enough quality youth emerging to skip the Boeta option.
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Old 7th August 2007, 13:02   #80
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I agree about Dippenaar. I believe he's proven that he's not quite up to test level, at least in terms of being a consistent contributor, or one who makes run in difficult circumstances. It would be better for you to go with youth if one of the incumbents needs replacing. Personally I believe Amla should be in this category as well.
Amla's 24. Are you putting him in the youth or Boeta category?

Quote:
Also he might still cut it in ODI's to an extent but he tends to be too slow on many occasions. It seems to me you have enough quality youth emerging to skip the Boeta option.
Boeta did a job for us when we were really struggling with batting options but as you say there are several options coming through. He was also useful in ODIs in difficult conditions when a defensive batsman rather than an attacker was needed but with Prince and Kallis around we have more than enough of those already.
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