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Old 25th November 2007, 00:50   #161
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Surely if Brad Hogg is still anyway near the test squad it doesn't say much for the quality of Australia's younger spinners. His test and first class bowling records are awful.
They are shocking, SA is supposed to have 2 good spinners but the best one cant get a game because the other is more hyped

Heal was looking the goods but got dropped for Hogg

Victorias spinner is 35 and only just starting to get a regular game

QLD dont have anyone, NSW rely on other states rejects and Tassies is more of a batsman

Fact is Hogg is far and away the most inform spinner in the country, no other spinner comes close
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Old 26th November 2007, 13:33   #162
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Yes our spinning cupboard looks relatively bare post-Warne. Lehmann treated Hogg with disdain. Odd that he seems to befuddle most international line-ups, even the sub-continent ones.
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Old 26th November 2007, 13:37   #163
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Yes our spinning cupboard looks relatively bare post-Warne. Lehmann treated Hogg with disdain. Odd that he seems to befuddle most international line-ups, even the sub-continent ones.
Hogg does well in ODIs. I know he's not played for a while but his test record is very ordinary indeed. It's a different dynamic when you have to try to hit a bowler, especially as the rest of the Aussie ODI attack has been so strong. I doubt he'll befuddle international batting line ups when it's easier to sit on the back foot and either defend or play the ball into gaps, rather than trying to hammer him. It's also the case that over a test match, batsmen will get a far better chance to become accustomed to his rather unusual bowling style (he's the only left arm wrist spinner around in the international game at the moment isn't he?) and hence would be expected to do better, particularly at picking his wrong 'un, which is his danger ball.
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Old 26th November 2007, 13:37   #164
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Yes our spinning cupboard looks relatively bare post-Warne. Lehmann treated Hogg with disdain. Odd that he seems to befuddle most international line-ups, even the sub-continent ones.
your talking ODIs and not tests here though, Vettori is hugely successful in the ODI arena compared to tests. I doubt that India would be that bothered with Hogg compared to Lee and Clark.
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Old 26th November 2007, 14:55   #165
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your talking ODIs and not tests here though, Vettori is hugely successful in the ODI arena compared to tests. I doubt that India would be that bothered with Hogg compared to Lee and Clark.
I doubt India would be too bothered with Lee either, hope they let him get another double century at some stage
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Old 26th November 2007, 15:23   #166
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I doubt India would be too bothered with Lee either, hope they let him get another double century at some stage
Different bowler completely to 4 years ago and India aren't as good with the bat with 4 of their players past their best. What will be crucial for a close series is how the 2nd and 3rd seamer go. To be honest Johnson and Clark didn't look all that against SL and a few ordinary performances could put them under a bit of pressure but that remains to be seen.
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Old 26th November 2007, 16:44   #167
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It's certainly possible that India will hold off the Aussie bowling for a draw in a test or two, although the Indian batting line up isn't what it was but I doubt that will result in a close series because the Australian batting will have few difficulties carting the bowling around.
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Old 26th November 2007, 16:50   #168
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What is crucial for a good series is India to win some bloody tosses, lets see how Lee bowls on a day 1 pitch and not with 500+ runs on the board, then if the Australian batsman can stand up with a huge deficit, would love to see Symonds have to come in at 4/200 still 350 runs behind and 150 to avoid the follow on, I would back a failure from him when the pressure is on
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Old 26th November 2007, 19:39   #169
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What is crucial for a good series is India to win some bloody tosses, lets see how Lee bowls on a day 1 pitch and not with 500+ runs on the board, then if the Australian batsman can stand up with a huge deficit, would love to see Symonds have to come in at 4/200 still 350 runs behind and 150 to avoid the follow on, I would back a failure from him when the pressure is on
You mean the kind of situation Gilchrist has then rescued them from many times? That would be interesting but it seems every time Australia prove they're still quite far ahead of the rest, those of us in denial come up with new scenarios that they have to prove themselves in.
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Old 26th November 2007, 20:06   #170
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They are shocking, SA is supposed to have 2 good spinners but the best one cant get a game because the other is more hyped

Heal was looking the goods but got dropped for Hogg

Victorias spinner is 35 and only just starting to get a regular game

QLD dont have anyone, NSW rely on other states rejects and Tassies is more of a batsman

Fact is Hogg is far and away the most inform spinner in the country, no other spinner comes close
But he's never cut the mustard at test level. I don't see any option except stick by MacGill in the short term.
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Old 27th November 2007, 00:51   #171
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Originally Posted by collingwood5 View Post
They are shocking, SA is supposed to have 2 good spinners but the best one cant get a game because the other is more hyped

Heal was looking the goods but got dropped for Hogg

Victorias spinner is 35 and only just starting to get a regular game

QLD dont have anyone, NSW rely on other states rejects and Tassies is more of a batsman

Fact is Hogg is far and away the most inform spinner in the country, no other spinner comes close
Glad to see you've finally realised Cam White is not a spinner.
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Old 27th November 2007, 01:02   #172
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But he's never cut the mustard at test level. I don't see any option except stick by MacGill in the short term.
I imagine you would have said something similar about Shane Warne after his first four Tests?

MacGill was absolutely shocking in Hobart, and I can't see how Hogg would have been any worse. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, the Indian batsman tend to read Hogg better then the 'Lankans, but then again they are good players of spin in general. At this stage I'd rather see the slower spin, but tighter control offered by Hogg than the absolutely loose carp with the (very) rare unplayable ball offered by an unfit MacGill.
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Old 27th November 2007, 01:08   #173
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Perhaps the debate is null and void, the SMH reckons MacGill will have knee surgery and be out for the rest of the summer.

MacGill may skip India for op to save career
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Old 27th November 2007, 02:08   #174
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Different bowler completely to 4 years ago and India aren't as good with the bat with 4 of their players past their best. What will be crucial for a close series is how the 2nd and 3rd seamer go. To be honest Johnson and Clark didn't look all that against SL and a few ordinary performances could put them under a bit of pressure but that remains to be seen.
Actually I thought Clark was fantastic in the first innings in Hobart. Beat Sanga and Jayawardene repeatedly and could have easily had a real bag of wickets. Not quite so good in the second innings, but his figures were made to look even worse when the tail went the slog.

Not so convinced about Johnson though. Some excellent deliveries, particularly some good bouncers, but also bowled several spells where the batsmen didn't look uncomfortable at all.
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Old 27th November 2007, 04:15   #175
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Glad to see you've finally realised Cam White is not a spinner.
I have always said he is a batsman who can bowl
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Old 27th November 2007, 09:52   #176
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Actually I thought Clark was fantastic in the first innings in Hobart. Beat Sanga and Jayawardene repeatedly and could have easily had a real bag of wickets. Not quite so good in the second innings, but his figures were made to look even worse when the tail went the slog.

Not so convinced about Johnson though. Some excellent deliveries, particularly some good bouncers, but also bowled several spells where the batsmen didn't look uncomfortable at all.

Who's next in line though, Tait of Hilfenhaus? You'd have thought Tait given that he was picked in the original squad ahead of Hilf.
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Old 27th November 2007, 10:03   #177
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Actually I thought Clark was fantastic in the first innings in Hobart. Beat Sanga and Jayawardene repeatedly and could have easily had a real bag of wickets. Not quite so good in the second innings, but his figures were made to look even worse when the tail went the slog.

Not so convinced about Johnson though. Some excellent deliveries, particularly some good bouncers, but also bowled several spells where the batsmen didn't look uncomfortable at all.
Clark was certainly tidy I just thought he seemed to lack a bit of snap compared to last winter

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Who's next in line though, Tait of Hilfenhaus? You'd have thought Tait given that he was picked in the original squad ahead of Hilf.
I'd have thought they'd stick with Johnson for the series but at the moment I think a fit Tait would be first in line at a guess, would knock over the Indians I reckon.
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Old 27th November 2007, 11:56   #178
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I'd think Tait, but it really depends on his elbow. There's always Bollinger
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Old 27th November 2007, 12:41   #179
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I have always said he is a batsman who can bowl
Oh - sort of like Michael Clarke only not as good.
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Old 27th November 2007, 13:09   #180
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Cam White's injury probably stymies any chance he had of breaking into the Aussie one day team this summer. Jaques has the mumps and has had to pull out of NSW's next match.
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