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Old 30th March 2017, 06:33   #81
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Getting a pasting from the Afghans in the intercontinental cup.
Isn't it an away match? Given England's performances in India and Bangladesh, perhaps the Irish could be cut some slack.

That said, Ireland need to unearth some prime talent quickly otherwise they're heading backwards at a rate of knots.
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Old 30th March 2017, 07:14   #82
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Isn't it an away match? Given England's performances in India and Bangladesh, perhaps the Irish could be cut some slack.

That said, Ireland need to unearth some prime talent quickly otherwise they're heading backwards at a rate of knots.
Yes, its in India. Still a pasting though!
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Old 30th March 2017, 16:04   #83
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They've not toured well to India at all and been comprehensively beaten in the T20s and 4 day and just beaten in the ODIs.

Don't think this means much though beyond Afghanistan being very good in 'home' conditions and Ireland travelling about as well as England did.
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Old 30th March 2017, 17:04   #84
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Non-subcontinent team struggling in the sub-continent is hardly new though is it? One could cherry pick a match from Australia's tours to Sri Lanka and India and England's tour to India and say they arent up to it.

Afghanistan certainly are a better team than Zimbabwe (and possibly the West Indies) in my opinion and have one of the best spinners in the game in Rashid Khan. Are Ireland better than Zimbabwe? Difficult to say.

Problem is the system doesnt allow people to find out whether both are better or as good as Zimbabwe.
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Old 30th March 2017, 18:31   #85
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Scotland have some ODIs coming up against Zimbabwe this Summer.
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Old 30th March 2017, 18:51   #86
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Wouldn't a basic point be, and was touched on earlier in the thread, that Ireland are desparately in need of some fresh players of quality coming into the side, otherwise the good work that started in 2007 will be undone rather soon?

Afghanistan clearly have a lot going for them as a cricket nation but the practicalities of being clearly less able to host home matches than Pakistan would be a problem for quite some time.
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Old 30th March 2017, 21:10   #87
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Nah. As long as the UAE exists they'll be grand.
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Old 30th March 2017, 21:12   #88
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Wouldn't a basic point be, and was touched on earlier in the thread, that Ireland are desparately in need of some fresh players of quality coming into the side, otherwise the good work that started in 2007 will be undone rather soon?

Afghanistan clearly have a lot going for them as a cricket nation but the practicalities of being clearly less able to host home matches than Pakistan would be a problem for quite some time.
It depends on the success of their first class structure and whether counties still are prepared to pick Irish players up at a young age and develop them. There does seem to have been a recent drop off in terms of the talent coming through unfortunately.
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Old 30th March 2017, 21:26   #89
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Wouldn't a basic point be, and was touched on earlier in the thread, that Ireland are desparately in need of some fresh players of quality coming into the side, otherwise the good work that started in 2007 will be undone rather soon?
Who are the batsman? That's the main question. Only Balbirnie is under 30 in that top 7. They need another spearhead paceman as well as Murtagh isn't exactly a spring chicken.
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Old 30th March 2017, 22:49   #90
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Stirling and Dockerell have not really progressed as far as hoped. I think we might view the Irish team just gone as a deviation above the mean rather than actual progression. The Afghans seem to be bringing through a number of players over recent years, so will be interesting to see if it's a sustainable phenomenon
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Old 31st March 2017, 09:28   #91
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Stirling and Dockerell have not really progressed as far as hoped. I think we might view the Irish team just gone as a deviation above the mean rather than actual progression. The Afghans seem to be bringing through a number of players over recent years, so will be interesting to see if it's a sustainable phenomenon
Dockrell already had problems with his action in terms of developing the yips at Somerset from recollection and that was the reason he regressed. I hope the Afghans do kick on but it is hard to know how much cricket has progressed inside their own country. A lot of their game had taken root in the refugee camps inside of Pakistan when so many folk were exiled. I understand that there is a lot of enthusiasm inside that country now but it is hard to put into context I guess.
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Old 31st March 2017, 09:42   #92
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Dockrell already had problems with his action in terms of developing the yips at Somerset from recollection and that was the reason he regressed. I hope the Afghans do kick on but it is hard to know how much cricket has progressed inside their own country. A lot of their game had taken root in the refugee camps inside of Pakistan when so many folk were exiled. I understand that there is a lot of enthusiasm inside that country now but it is hard to put into context I guess.
Just looking at the Afghanistan domestic cricket page on cricinfo they have had a full programme of 4 day, T20 and 50 over competitions and also seem to have a well structured provincial under 16s tournament too, all played at different grounds around the country. From a starting point it looks pretty promising.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:26   #93
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Not exactly the best of (triangular) series for Ireland against the kiwis and bangles if they hope to persuade someone they can cope with Test cricket.

They've got a few handy batsmen and one or two decent bowlers, but enough to cut it as a Test nation?
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Old 23rd May 2017, 17:04   #94
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They're not a good one day team at all and I wouldn't judge them on it with ref to test status.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 19:07   #95
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Not exactly the best of (triangular) series for Ireland against the kiwis and bangles if they hope to persuade someone they can cope with Test cricket.

They've got a few handy batsmen and one or two decent bowlers, but enough to cut it as a Test nation?
They've better first class records than 50 over records. Ireland are much more suited to test cricket than ODIs.
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Old 25th May 2017, 12:38   #96
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They've better first class records than 50 over records. Ireland are much more suited to test cricket than ODIs.
I'm unconvinced, what Test nation that isn't good in ODIs is good in Tests?

Even the weaker Test nations are more competitive in the shorter than the longer format, the bowlers are much the same quality as are the batsmen so no reason to believe a side struggling to be even competitive in ODIs will fare better against the same quality bowling and batting just because they have longer.

Also much may depend on what is coming through, not just what exists. Sure I read Joyce is retiring from county cricket (acting as back-up only) to focus on playing for Ireland, and he's pretty old as I suspect a number of their key players are. Need to be sustainable, not dad's army.
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Old 25th May 2017, 22:50   #97
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I'm unconvinced, what Test nation that isn't good in ODIs is good in Tests?

Even the weaker Test nations are more competitive in the shorter than the longer format, the bowlers are much the same quality as are the batsmen so no reason to believe a side struggling to be even competitive in ODIs will fare better against the same quality bowling and batting just because they have longer.

Also much may depend on what is coming through, not just what exists. Sure I read Joyce is retiring from county cricket (acting as back-up only) to focus on playing for Ireland, and he's pretty old as I suspect a number of their key players are. Need to be sustainable, not dad's army.
Pakistan. Well, tailed off in tests in the last year but still a better test than ODI team and was actually a really good test side a year or so ago.

I'm not saying that Ireland really will be better in tests than ODIs as I'm a bit unconvinced by the proposition that their players really suit the format more and anyway, there's less of a chance to get away with inferiority in the longer game. So largely I agree with you, the first line aside.
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Old 26th May 2017, 07:36   #98
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For once I agree with RS - sustainability is the key. They should go away for five years and prove they can develop international class players through their new first class system. Then perhaps their application for test status could be reconsidered.
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Old 26th May 2017, 07:44   #99
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I'm unconvinced, what Test nation that isn't good in ODIs is good in Tests?

Even the weaker Test nations are more competitive in the shorter than the longer format, the bowlers are much the same quality as are the batsmen so no reason to believe a side struggling to be even competitive in ODIs will fare better against the same quality bowling and batting just because they have longer.

Also much may depend on what is coming through, not just what exists. Sure I read Joyce is retiring from county cricket (acting as back-up only) to focus on playing for Ireland, and he's pretty old as I suspect a number of their key players are. Need to be sustainable, not dad's army.
Joyce and Murtagh apart, Ireland's players ages are on a par with England.

Peter Chase 23
Andrew McBrine 23
George Dockerell 24
Barry McCarthy 24
Stuart Thompson 25
Craig Young 26
Paul Stirling 26
Andrew Balbirnie 26
Stuart Poynter 26
Greg Thompson 29
Sino Singh 30
Gary Wilson 31
William Porterfield 32 (same age as Alistair Cook)
Kevin O'Brien 33

Hardly Dads Army

How old are Gareth Batty and James Anderson?
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Old 27th May 2017, 07:20   #100
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Not sure how going away for 5 years will really work. Honestly the mantle should've been grabbed post 2011 when the team was at their International zenith but cricket keeps finding ways to just do nowt.
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