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Old 21st February 2018, 06:39   #1621
Chin Music
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To be realistic, I suspect that Leach has been better served missing the Australia tour where it is highly likely that he would have hardly prospered given the usual time overseas spinners have. That said it is absurd that Ali, after a disgraceful showing, and an awful overseas test record is still in situ with seemingly no consideration as to looking ahead for times to come. As well as this, surely New Zealand are a better side to debut against for a spinner than Pakistan or India. Not just having a go at Ali, in my opinion the likes of Vince, Broad and Woakes are very lucky to keep their spots after their woeful showing in Australia too.
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Old 21st February 2018, 06:53   #1622
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He won't go to NZ unless they change the tour squad. How is it tenable not to change it when crane is clearly third choice for the lions?
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Old 21st February 2018, 09:21   #1623
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Poor old Leach will suffer a "Rashid"

He will watch Ali get smashed in NZ but pick up a few cheap wickets over the summer to keep Leach out - then Jack will get thrown in the deep end away from home in Sri Lanka when the "consensus" is to play 2 spinners.

Good luck.
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Old 21st February 2018, 09:55   #1624
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
You missed the nuance. Unless you have a specialist spinner who is good then take the compromise. Rashid, batty, crane, tredwell etc are arguably no better than moeen so you take the overall package. Leach is different. He is a genuine wicket taker AND can offer control. It is about who, on balance, brings most to the team.
I noticed the nuance, but I don't believe your account of it. The significant factor is surely that Leach plays for Somerset and those other chaps you mentioned don't.
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Old 21st February 2018, 11:34   #1625
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1 more 'Test' to go.

Wisden
'Crane will now head home to England to prepare to rejoin the Test squad in New Zealand next month, leaving the Lions to choose from 15 in Antigua – with Dan Lawrence, Dom Bess, Saqib Mahmood and Richard Gleeson all hoping for their first action of the series'.

Stats so far
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...;ty pe=series

Leach 88.4 overs - 17.71
Livingstone 49.0 - 28.00
Crane 26.4 - 115.00 :roll

It's madness that Crane is going to NZ.
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Old 21st February 2018, 12:48   #1626
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As earlier...are we pretending he doesn't have a better career best at headingley than rashid?
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Look at best bowling for an innings. he doesn't get to bowl much there because either a) overton skittles them and we win easily or b) we score 230 runs for 20.

You must really rate overton then if you write off leach for wickets at Taunton when it is a struggle for seamers. Or does GBG logic dictate that no runs count at Taunton because it is a road, no spin wickets because it turns and no seamers count because erm...they just don't.

Finn take wickets on a lord's green top and gets celebrated. Leach and overton skittle Middlesex and it is not fair (Finn failed badly). I assume you will tie yourself up in contradictory knots like the media.

Now if only overton played all his matches at Trent bridge.
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Old 21st February 2018, 12:49   #1627
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Poor old Leach will suffer a "Rashid"

He will watch Ali get smashed in NZ but pick up a few cheap wickets over the summer to keep Leach out - then Jack will get thrown in the deep end away from home in Sri Lanka when the "consensus" is to play 2 spinners.

Good luck.
Hmm, maybe not. More likely to get wickets that favour his bowling in Sri Lanka than England.
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Old 21st February 2018, 14:25   #1628
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Hmm, maybe not. More likely to get wickets that favour his bowling in Sri Lanka than England.
Yes but with the added pressure of "deboo" in a very tough away match.
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Old 21st February 2018, 14:26   #1629
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1 more 'Test' to go.

Wisden
'Crane will now head home to England to prepare to rejoin the Test squad in New Zealand next month, leaving the Lions to choose from 15 in Antigua with Dan Lawrence, Dom Bess, Saqib Mahmood and Richard Gleeson all hoping for their first action of the series'.

Stats so far
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...;ty pe=series

Leach 88.4 overs - 17.71
Livingstone 49.0 - 28.00
Crane 26.4 - 115.00 :roll

It's madness that Crane is going to NZ.
Not if you don't expect a spinner other than Moeen to play - which they wont.

Crane is young - they experience of carrying drinks and being around the team will do him good.
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Old 21st February 2018, 14:43   #1630
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Not if you don't expect a spinner other than Moeen to play - which they wont.

Crane is young - they experience of carrying drinks and being around the team will do him good.
You never know with Bayliss, he might play Ali and Crane.

Why did England play 2 spinners in Sydney? 363/3. There was nothing there for Lyon either.
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Old 21st February 2018, 16:10   #1631
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... Why did England play 2 spinners in Sydney? 363/3. There was nothing there for Lyon either.
There was nothing there for any of the England bowlers. In fact this is fairly often the case. Perhaps there is a school of thought that says in such circumstances we should select no bowlers at all, but I don't subscribe to it. In that Sydney test our 2 spinners took half of the Australian wickets to fall to bowlers, and our 3 seamers took the other half. Though actually the wickets didn't matter in the least, because we were never going to take a relevant quantity of them. The seamers conceded fewer runs than the spinners in taking the same number of wickets, but actually that didn't matter in the least either, because Australia had plenty of time to bat for as long as it took them to get whatever runs they wanted. The relevant figures here are the numbers of overs bowled per bowler: Crane and Ali bowled 48 overs each, which adds up to half of the overs England bowled, and 8 others were bowled by Root. Because of the spinners, the seamers didn't have to bowl much in comparison. So basically the answer to your question is that if England hadn't picked two spinners at Sydney, Australia would have crippled at least four of our seamers, and would probably have batted on and on and on in order actually to kill them.

Your daft question is symptomatic of most of the things that are wrong with English cricket.
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Old 21st February 2018, 22:32   #1632
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I noticed the nuance, but I don't believe your account of it. The significant factor is surely that Leach plays for Somerset and those other chaps you mentioned don't.
? See my comments about Overton being in ODI squad.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 12:04   #1633
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1 more 'Test' to go.

Wisden
'Crane will now head home to England to prepare to rejoin the Test squad in New Zealand next month, leaving the Lions to choose from 15 in Antigua with Dan Lawrence, Dom Bess, Saqib Mahmood and Richard Gleeson all hoping for their first action of the series'.

Stats so far
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...;ty pe=series

Leach 88.4 overs - 17.71
Livingstone 49.0 - 28.00
Crane 26.4 - 115.00 :roll

It's madness that Crane is going to NZ.
So Crane will prepare for a test series by sitting on his @rse in England rather than playing cricket for the Lions in the West Indies? I couldn't agree more with the bit in bold.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 08:21   #1634
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so are Foakes and Livingstone returning home early as well?
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Old 23rd February 2018, 10:05   #1635
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so are Foakes and Livingstone returning home early as well?
Ha! You make a fair point Fred.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 16:45   #1636
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Looks like Crane is in the plans long term and they are investing in him.

Does raise questions as to the point of the Lions tour mind you -

It appears to be a place where players not liked by the selectors can rule themselves out in public.
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Old 24th February 2018, 17:36   #1637
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Does raise questions as to the point of the Lions tour mind you -

It appears to be a place where players not liked by the selectors can rule themselves out in public.


Flower must be livid that Leach is bowling well.
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Old 24th February 2018, 18:22   #1638
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Flower must be livid that Leach is bowling well.
He's certainly damned Leach with faint praise

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Out of the two games that have been played in the unofficial Test series against Windies, Leach has picked up 14 wickets in three innings despite the home side taking a 2-0 lead. "Selection is not down to me but on pitches that turn, he has shown himself to be very effective and has been the dominant bowler for us," Flower told The Guardian. "In Sri Lankan conditions and with continued development, there is no reason why he can't make an impact."
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Old 25th February 2018, 19:28   #1639
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One question - is Leach now ' in the clear' in terms of his action ?
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Old 25th February 2018, 20:11   #1640
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One question - is Leach now ' in the clear' in terms of his action ?
I assume he must be. It was weird that there was nothing wrong with it except for a short time with the Lions. At least it seems he's got over it as it has ruined bowlers in the past.
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