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Old 31st May 2016, 15:25   #261
Jock McTuffnel v3
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Maybe one day England will pick a spinner for his bowling and have the courage to take a long term view and stick with him. We seem to be able to do it for underperforming batsmen - usually by dropping the spinner.
First they came for the wicketkeepers and I did not speak up, then they came for the spinners and I did not speak up, then they came for the 1st change seamers and I did not speak up etc..
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Old 31st May 2016, 16:07   #262
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Maybe one day England will pick a spinner for his bowling and have the courage to take a long term view and stick with him. We seem to be able to do it for underperforming batsmen - usually by dropping the spinner.
It's not like it's unprecedented. Monty, then Swann, were picked as bowlers (though Swann could bat, it didn't feel like that's why he was selected). Hell, Monty couldn't even field. He was as specialist as they come. But that's not an option at the moment, the multitude of names thrown out aren't particularly exciting or suggest long term return on investment, so might as well go with Ali who does give some value for now.
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Old 31st May 2016, 17:32   #263
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It's not like it's unprecedented. Monty, then Swann, were picked as bowlers (though Swann could bat, it didn't feel like that's why he was selected). Hell, Monty couldn't even field. He was as specialist as they come. But that's not an option at the moment, the multitude of names thrown out aren't particularly exciting or suggest long term return on investment, so might as well go with Ali who does give some value for now.
With England preparing the most seam friendly pitches I can remember, loaded against the tourists, they are hedging their bets that Moeen's lack of quality will rarely cost us at home. If a better spinner does suddenly appear, then perhaps we'll see more balanced wickets, as we did at times when Swann was playing. Until then it's all a little catch 22.
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Old 31st May 2016, 18:09   #264
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Yes, and if it weren't for Root's dodgy back, it's probable that Ali would be out of the side.
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I doubt it - as long as he keeps scoring runs his exploits with the ball will be ignored by the selectors.
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Given that he averages over 50 with the bat, I'm not surprised the selectors don't spend much time looking at his bowling.
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I think you'll find it's nearer 31.54.
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Unlike you to get a Yorkshire player's average wrong in the direction of making it worse.
Good job it's easy to include the relevant comments or I don't think I'd have bothered.

Perhaps even you may notice the ambiguity in a couple of them.

Any road up, not like you to nit-pick.
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Old 31st May 2016, 20:00   #265
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Maybe India, but even there I think our best seamers may have better records than our best spinners.
Yes but the point (I think) was when would we need a proper front line spinner.

On our shores it's almost never an issue as our seamers role through most sides.
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Old 31st May 2016, 20:03   #266
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I mentioned him before, but Ollie Robinson is worth keeping an eye on. He took the new ball yesterday, then went to off spin, back to pace, then back to off spin again and got a 4fer. He did it at the end of last season as well.
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Old 31st May 2016, 20:51   #267
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I mentioned him before, but Ollie Robinson is worth keeping an eye on. He took the new ball yesterday, then went to off spin, back to pace, then back to off spin again and got a 4fer. He did it at the end of last season as well.
Saw him bowling some white ball stuff before and he looked decent. Never knew he did spin as well though!
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Old 31st May 2016, 22:10   #268
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With England preparing the most seam friendly pitches I can remember, loaded against the tourists, they are hedging their bets that Moeen's lack of quality will rarely cost us at home. If a better spinner does suddenly appear, then perhaps we'll see more balanced wickets, as we did at times when Swann was playing. Until then it's all a little catch 22.
I don't think either of the wickets this series have been particularly seam friendly in themselves but overcast conditions in May in the North of England aren't going to give the batsmen much chance against Anderson and Broad. With the sun even marginally out, CLS especially was pretty flat.

I remember a lot of criticism, at least from Aussies, about how low, slow and dry the wickets were in the 2013 Ashes. While I thought that was overblown too, what we've seen so far this series are more characteristic English wickets than in 2013.
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Old 1st June 2016, 07:27   #269
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I don't think either of the wickets this series have been particularly seam friendly in themselves but overcast conditions in May in the North of England aren't going to give the batsmen much chance against Anderson and Broad. With the sun even marginally out, CLS especially was pretty flat.

I remember a lot of criticism, at least from Aussies, about how low, slow and dry the wickets were in the 2013 Ashes. While I thought that was overblown too, what we've seen so far this series are more characteristic English wickets than in 2013.
Headingley was helpful to the seam and swing men. CLS, I agree with you was pretty flat and it was only a supine 1st innings showing from Sri Lanka that stopped it being a contest. The one thing that both matches had was that England lost a few wickets early on in their first innings, but that was as much down to some rather questionable batting as well as some disciplined if not exceptional Sri Lankan bowling.
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Old 1st June 2016, 11:26   #270
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Which, given he's just taken the wicket, doesn't say much about the form of the other bowlers who couldn't take that wicket...

"I'm out of ideas - let's bowl the spinner and hope... oooh, that broke the stand, so let's go back to the approach which wasn't working before and expect different results!"
To be fair, it does happen quite a lot in test cricket that after the main bowlers have tried and failed for a while, a less skilled bowler is put on and takes a wicket, and is then taken off again.
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Old 14th June 2016, 12:54   #271
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http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...;type= series

Test series averages for Sri Lanka.

Moeen 49 overs 180/2 @ 90, 3.67 economy.

Surely we have someone who could do better than that ?
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Old 14th June 2016, 13:11   #272
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Surely we have someone who could do better than that ?
Who?
I don't think the selectors are particularly anti-picking a spinner who cannot bat that well (Monty became unpickable because of his fielding) there is simply a dearth of them. Ali contributes with the ball, picking up a surprising number of top 1-4 batsmen, and bat - will he bowl us to victory in India - NO!
In India we could easily have a Batty or Treadwell in the team alongside Ali & Rashid, not exactly inspiring but possibly the best of a poor lot.
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Old 14th June 2016, 13:21   #273
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Ollie Raynor? Tall, excellent slip fielder, can bat, 2 100s

4 games 15 wickets at 20.20 econ 2.40 s/r 50.3
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Old 14th June 2016, 14:14   #274
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Who?
I don't think the selectors are particularly anti-picking a spinner who cannot bat that well (Monty became unpickable because of his fielding) there is simply a dearth of them. Ali contributes with the ball, picking up a surprising number of top 1-4 batsmen, and bat - will he bowl us to victory in India - NO!
In India we could easily have a Batty or Treadwell in the team alongside Ali & Rashid, not exactly inspiring but possibly the best of a poor lot.
Moeen has a better bowling average against India than Shane warne so he might.

Jock - mo scored match defining runs at Durham which allowed an easy win. We won two matches and one was decimated by rain. Look at the complete package rather than just bowling. He is an all rounder so can win a match with bat or ball.
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Old 14th June 2016, 14:15   #275
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But jack leach is one to watch. Takes wickets at under 30 you know. Only bowled in div one.
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Old 14th June 2016, 14:24   #276
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Who?
.
Well we will never know if we don't give them a chance.
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Old 14th June 2016, 14:24   #277
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Well we will never know if we don't give them a chance.
Is one of the lamest arguments ever. I bowl spin (I'm pretty dreadful), am England qualified and am only a bit over 40. My surname starts with a Z so I propose giving anyone who meets those criteria a try in reverse alphabetical order. We'll never know unless we give them (me) a try. You'll especially like the fact that I'm not a very good batsman and gbg and Chin will like that I can throw myself around quite hard in the field.
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Old 14th June 2016, 14:25   #278
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Moeen has a better bowling average against India than Shane warne so he might.
Mo hasn't played a single test in India.
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Old 14th June 2016, 14:31   #279
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Mo hasn't played a single test in India.
Neither have I. We'll never know unless you give us a chance.
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Old 14th June 2016, 14:41   #280
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Neither have I. We'll never know unless you give us a chance.
Is there anyone better than Compton ?

I can't see any other batsmen out there better. Lets stick with him - yes he isn't scoring runs but he once got a few runs a couple of years ago even if his average is DIRE recently.
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