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#1081 |
Posting God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 10,983
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I'd blame it on selection more than I'd blame it on the spinners. In that last match we achieved a first-innings lead despite losing the toss, so it was really in the final two innings that the game was lost. England's collapse in the fourth innings was bad enough to see us lose almost regardless of the third innings; but nonetheless one might wonder what was going on in the third innings to see Bangladesh post the highest total of the match. There Woakes and Finn were our two most expensive bowlers and also they only bowled 5 overs between them, taking no wickets. If Batty had played instead of Finn then Bangladesh might not have set us such a stiff target. Who knows; but at the toss, when Finn was named in the team it was already vanishingly unlikely that he would be any use to the team at all. And Cook must surely take some responsibility for selection whilst on tour.
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#1082 | |
World Class
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge
Team(s): England
Posts: 7,350
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If Cook was pushing to blood other spinners beyond bang average Moeen he kept very quiet about it. And his fields when the spinners were bowling are crap. Apart from that he's blameless.
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#1083 |
International Material
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,852
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Jock if you ignore the decision to open with Ali in Pakistan, a clear disaster before it happened Moeen currently averages 39.5 with the bat and 38.6 with the ball. While nobody disputes Moeen is at the bottom end of a test spinner would you concede he is a decent test match batsman/fifth bowling option?
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#1084 | |
International Material
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Exeter
Posts: 1,481
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#1085 | |
Posting God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 10,983
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#1086 | |
Posting God
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,481
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#1087 | |
International Material
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,852
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At the present moment I'd guess the mythical world class spinner is probably more in competition with the seamers for the 4th bowling spot, unless Ali's bats very badly for the remainder of the winter. There remains a big opportunity for Rashid and Ansari to still push for a regular place in the team as I'm sure the management would like a reliable leg spinner or left armer in the squad for most tests. |
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#1088 | |
International Material
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Exeter
Posts: 1,481
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#1089 | |
International Material
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,852
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If he does make a real go of 5 this winter it will be interesting to see where England go next summer. Outside London 4 seamers and Mo generally seems enough. So do they bring in another batsman? If they do its almost a vote of no confidence playing them after the all rounders. As Stokes is average at anywhere but 6 and Bairstow is probably the best number 7 in test cricket that could mean Ali dropping all the was back to 8, or a specialist batsman at 8 in some tests. |
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#1090 |
International Material
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,972
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Averages including this inngings
1/2: 14 5: 47.75 (including this inngings) 6: 21.00 7th: 87.85 8th: 28.06 9th: 37.50 The problem is all three of Ali,Stokes and Bairstow really look like #6 or #7 batsman at the moment, with our lack of test quality specialist batsman moving one of them to #5 seems sensible and as Bairstow only averages 24.7 at 5 compared to 45 and 44 at 6 and 7 then it makes sense to give Ali a go there especially as IMO he's the best player of spin out of the three. It also helps that Woakes looks like a good #8 at test level. If those three play well in those positions for the rest of the winter and one of the spinners plays well then with all our test matches being in the mid to late summer next year unless a batsman really performs extremely well in county cricket FC (that would be difficult with the schedule putting the domestic one day stuff at the beginning of the season) I don't see an issue with trying two spinners at home with Ali/Stokes/Bairstow/Woakes at 5/6/7/8. |
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#1091 |
Posting God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 10,983
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Outside London 3 seamers and Mo would probably be enough too, or 3 seamers and another spinner too. Unless you think it's illegal to play two spinners if you can get away with one. I remain of the opinion that a 4th seamer is generally a waste of a space. I also think that with so many all-rounders it has to be an option to play a specialist batsman -- e.g. Billings -- as low as 8. There are spare spots in the order and at present we're using them in a rather unimaginative manner. Playing Finn last summer didn't do him any favours. Almost every over he bowled would have been better bowled by someone else already in the team, and the batting was unnecessarily weak despite the all-rounders.
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#1092 | |
International Material
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,852
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#1093 |
International Material
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,972
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#1094 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: la sala de opinion equivocada
Team(s): ****
Posts: 24,627
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Ali's overall test match record with the bat is now pretty handy, especially for an all-rounder. I think a test for him will be whether or not he'll make it as a no.5 v the pace attacks, and not the spin based attacks that he is facing this winter. I've been supportive of him playing at no.5 in Asia and am glad that he's so far had a good time of it (a 50 in the Bangla bunsen was not that mean a feat either). South Africa next year at home and Australia away, I'd been less convinced about his batting in the upper order.
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#1095 | |
International Material
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,852
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#1096 | |
Posting God
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Manchester
Team(s): England, Lancashire, Man Utd
Posts: 16,591
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#1097 | |
International Material
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,852
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The options for the 9 spot are either an extra batsman (probably with some adjustment to the batting order) or someone who spins it the other way to Ali. As things stand at the moment I'd probably be looking at bringing Leach in, but a lot can happen between now and May. |
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#1098 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: la sala de opinion equivocada
Team(s): ****
Posts: 24,627
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Can we give positive marks to all 3 spinners for the game just gone? Rashid's best test performance by far so far (albeit some might say that wasn't exactly difficult!), a decent performance from Mo, who might have got a couple more wickets with a bit of luck, and similarly so from Ansari up to a point, though he clearly has a fair bit to learn.
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#1099 |
Posting God
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,243
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From what I've seen of Ansari he's no worse than Mo was after two tests and a long way ahead of Rashid.
Didn't Swann and Monty begin their career on recent India tours? Both were competent without setting the world alight. I know he debuted in Bangladesh, but let's hope it's a similar start to an equally productive career for Zafar.
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#1100 | ||
Posting God
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Manchester
Team(s): England, Lancashire, Man Utd
Posts: 16,591
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