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Old 19th August 2018, 19:10   #421
martin201002
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Well one of the worst days ever for England there.
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Old 19th August 2018, 19:16   #422
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Can someone explain to me why for years now do we keep suffering from batting collapses? Is it the personnel? Is it the coaching? Is it we overrate the players, when really we're a mediocre side who now and again produce a gem of a performance? What can be done to rectify this?

I now the cloud came back when it was our time to bat, but even in the sunny conditions of Aus we still suffered batting collapses and conditions today did not warrant being bowled out for 161
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Old 19th August 2018, 19:21   #423
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Bayliss isn’t helping. That stat about ten wickets in a session (3 times since 2016, none in the previous 80 years) is pretty damning.
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Old 19th August 2018, 19:25   #424
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Hmm... May be the series is still alive- India have got the two practice games I was crying about. Bhuwaneshwar is still a big miss but Pandya did well enough I guess.

Long long way to go though.
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Old 19th August 2018, 19:30   #425
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Is it we overrate the players, when really we're a mediocre side who now and again produce a gem of a performance? What can be done to rectify this?
Root apart does anyone actually rate our batsman in the longer form of the game?
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Old 19th August 2018, 19:48   #426
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Root apart does anyone actually rate our batsman in the longer form of the game?
No tbh, Cook is living off former glories and Jennings is no better than any of the other openers we've discarded over the years. The likes of Stokes, Butler, Bairstow and even Moen are primarily attacking ODI/T20 batsmen being forced to adjust their style for test matches, which occasionally works but for the most part doesn't.

Well you guys come across as knowledgeable about the game, is there anything we can do about it? Anyone from the county scene being overlooked?
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Old 19th August 2018, 20:02   #427
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Well one of the worst days ever for England there.
England are a terrible test batting side. Disasterous group of bottlers and fancy fans.
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Old 19th August 2018, 20:16   #428
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Can someone explain to me why for years now do we keep suffering from batting collapses? Is it the personnel?
Doesn't help when Cook is not really in consistent form, odd double not compensating a general vulnerability.

Not having a solid partner doesn't help, basically two early wickets for the taking. Pope is new to the side, going to take time to find his feet.

Root and Bairstow can't carry the side on their own, Buttler, Stokes and Woakes are capable but not going to deliver often enough, nor should the last five wickets be bailing out 1-6 all the time.....

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Is it the coaching? Is it we overrate the players, when really we're a mediocre side who now and again produce a gem of a performance? What can be done to rectify this?
Players are selected and don't deliver, there may be some blame with the coaching staff but the newbs don't apply themselves any better or worse than some of the established batsmen.

The selectors either don't give players long enough or too long, and really don't use opportunities like playing weaker nations or being X Tests up in a series

But essentially they should have batted first not bowled, arguable whether or not Stokes should have come back but could Curran have done less than Stokes?


Also too much shorter version stuff, batsmen don't seem able to play defensively, seems a rare ability to not hang the bat out, fend at a delivery you don't need to, prop forward, play bat behind pad and cover the line of stumps, seems not nearly enough of it.
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Old 19th August 2018, 20:18   #429
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England are a terrible test batting side. Disasterous group of bottlers and fancy fans.
Great when the pitch is nice for batting and they're on top, not so great when they have to battle it out.
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Old 19th August 2018, 20:21   #430
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No tbh, Cook is living off former glories and Jennings is no better than any of the other openers we've discarded over the years. The likes of Stokes, Butler, Bairstow and even Moen are primarily attacking ODI/T20 batsmen being forced to adjust their style for test matches, which occasionally works but for the most part doesn't.

Well you guys come across as knowledgeable about the game, is there anything we can do about it? Anyone from the county scene being overlooked?
Unless Jennings earns a reprieve tomorrow Burns will get a shot. Struggled with The Lions, overall consistent but only 14 centuries, which isn't that impressive at almost 28. Clarke batted well when I saw him at Nottingham although whether he is really a number 6 by nature and may struggle higher in the order is a bit of a question mark. He struggles outside his off stump early in an innings. Hildreth could possibly do something for a couple of years but it's scratching around.

Top 5 is a giant problem, has been for 4 or 5 years. It's only the excellence of Anderson and Broad and decent runs from 6, 7 and 8 that's kept us in any way competitive.
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Old 19th August 2018, 20:24   #431
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Bayliss isnít helping. That stat about ten wickets in a session (3 times since 2016, none in the previous 80 years) is pretty damning.
Robson, Stoneman, Lyth, Ballance, Westley, Jennings, Malan, Robson, Taylor, Compton, Ali (as a batsman), too many batsmen tried, oft persisted with too long, even the Buttler experiment is questionable.

It's only slightly less ridiculous than the number of spinners which may be less, but you usually only pick 1-2 spinners, more batsmen pay even factoring in 3-4 picked regularly leaves 1-3 spots.


I'd advocate bringing Hameed in, tell him to dig in and grind runs, he'll only find form by playing and those in county form coming in don't carry it over to the Test arena.

Put another way Hameed has (albeit limited) success in Tests, and with some of these batsmen averaging low 20s or under he can't exactly be any worse..........
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Old 19th August 2018, 20:55   #432
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Robson, Stoneman, Lyth, Ballance, Westley, Jennings, Malan, Robson, Taylor, Compton, Ali (as a batsman), too many batsmen tried, oft persisted with too long, even the Buttler experiment is questionable.

It's only slightly less ridiculous than the number of spinners which may be less, but you usually only pick 1-2 spinners, more batsmen pay even factoring in 3-4 picked regularly leaves 1-3 spots.


I'd advocate bringing Hameed in, tell him to dig in and grind runs, he'll only find form by playing and those in county form coming in don't carry it over to the Test arena.

Put another way Hameed has (albeit limited) success in Tests, and with some of these batsmen averaging low 20s or under he can't exactly be any worse..........
I was a big advocate of his original selection. Sadly watching him bat over the last 2 years he's currently all over the place. He needs to find himself before he's going to be in a position for a recall.
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Old 19th August 2018, 21:02   #433
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I can’t get over how bad it was. Appalling.
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Old 19th August 2018, 21:17   #434
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I was a big advocate of his original selection. Sadly watching him bat over the last 2 years he's currently all over the place. He needs to find himself before he's going to be in a position for a recall.
Perhaps playing in Sri Lanka and possibly opening against spin would help Hameed? I thought that was one of the most impressive things about his stint as opener, he looked far more comfortable than I'd expect of an Englishman of his age in those conditions. I swear the biggest problem we have with the batting is always losing wickets to the new ball. At our best we had Strauss and Cook followed by Trott who nullified a lot before our stroke players came in.
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Old 19th August 2018, 21:24   #435
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... Today [the first day] we needed him [Rashid] to keep it tight to rest the seamers. ...
No we didn't. We picked four seamers. That function of the spinner is only necessary if he's playing in a four-man attack or a seamer gets injured. If we had been picking for that function we wouldn't have picked Rashid. Ali was never picked for that function either.

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Did Hussain just say that Pujara made batting easy on the eye? I guess if anyone could say that with any conviction it's Hussain!
Hussain was my batting hero throughout his time as an England player. If he came in with the innings at risk he always got his head down.

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This England team goes from one extreme to the other. Very very good. Or diabolical. Maybe changes are needed at management level.
It's been clear for a few years now that Bayliss is incompetent as test coach, but that they won't relieve him of those duties because they're gagging to win the World Cup next year if at all possible. What we saw today is an indirect result of the ECB's attitude to test cricket.

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... But essentially they should have batted first not bowled ...
Indeed. Swann called it very early, and I agree, that Root's decision was partly due to fear of England batting craply again.
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Old 19th August 2018, 21:32   #436
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Perhaps playing in Sri Lanka and possibly opening against spin would help Hameed? I thought that was one of the most impressive things about his stint as opener, he looked far more comfortable than I'd expect of an Englishman of his age in those conditions. I swear the biggest problem we have with the batting is always losing wickets to the new ball. At our best we had Strauss and Cook followed by Trott who nullified a lot before our stroke players came in.
At the moment he has more understanding of quantum physics than the location of his off stump, which really prevents him having much chance of sticking around against good bowlers. He's nowhere near the batsman from 2 years ago. I still think he'll sort it out and become a good batsman again but he isnt at the moment.
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Old 19th August 2018, 22:39   #437
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Well one of the worst days ever for England there.
Which is especially impressive given they had an extremely good first session: last 4 wickets down cheaply and none lost in reply for nearly 50 runs. To have turned that very promising position into an all but utterly certain defeat is a very special effort. Well done India, mind.
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Old 19th August 2018, 22:45   #438
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This could be a carbon copy of the second day of last yearís TB test that I had the misfortune of watching. At least they serve Harvest Pale from the club bar.
Well that was grimly predictable.

My dad was there again today, the poor *******. Mind you he was also there for Fredís century in 2005, Broadís 8-15 and the (then) record ODI score against Sri Lanka so heís in credit, I think
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Old 19th August 2018, 22:56   #439
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Been out all evening but recorded (as I thought) The Debate. Unfortunately there was only 15 minutes of it. Hoeever, I thought Ebony was brilliant, pointing out our batsmenís inability or refusal to dig in, but continuing to play shots. ďItís the way they playĒ. Implied blame of Bayliss but Colvile canít get anyone to say that in so many words.

Willis continues to have a go at the batsmen who arenít up to it - Jennings, basically. Cook is the elephant in the room. Why isnít any attention paid to his poor recent record? The batsmen are criticised as a unit, always 4 down for less than 100.
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Old 19th August 2018, 23:26   #440
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I enjoyed #politeenquiries. “Why can’t England convert 10s into 20s?”.
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