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Old 12th February 2018, 09:24   #461
Sir Coolerking
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If it were happening in isolation it would be fine. But it seems to be happening at the expense of any sensible thinking about test cricket, so all things considered I'd rather England were rubbish at ODIs again.
Really??? We win homes series, we lose the away ones. How does that differ from any other team?

At least we're now competitive in ODI's so have made one step forward.
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Old 12th February 2018, 14:03   #462
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Really??? We win homes series, we lose the away ones. How does that differ from any other team? ...
To me it's not so much the results as the impression that no real concerted effort has been made to produce a squad that could be effective overseas. I'm not really fussed about what other teams are doing; for me the comparison would be between England now and England in the old days, when one couldn't really have supposed that focusing on white-ball cricket was affecting the fortunes of the test team. Anyway, I don't mean to be a grump. If we're getting better at ODIs that's a good thing if taken in isolation.
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Old 12th February 2018, 14:17   #463
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To me it's not so much the results as the impression that no real concerted effort has been made to produce a squad that could be effective overseas. I'm not really fussed about what other teams are doing; for me the comparison would be between England now and England in the old days, when one couldn't really have supposed that focusing on white-ball cricket was affecting the fortunes of the test team. Anyway, I don't mean to be a grump. If we're getting better at ODIs that's a good thing if taken in isolation.
I think my point is that we're getting better at ODI's without really having an impact on the Test side. How many series have we won away from home in the last 20 years? For a while we were very good in the Test arena, largely because Swann (and I really dislike him) allowed us to pick 6 strong batsmen and Prior (and we really had 6 strong batsmen too). But you can only pick what's available and we don't have either a spinner of that quality anymore or strength of batting.

What we do have is considerable talent in limited overs so at least we've got something and it is producing results as well.
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Old 12th February 2018, 18:02   #464
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I think my point is that we're getting better at ODI's without really having an impact on the Test side. How many series have we won away from home in the last 20 years? For a while we were very good in the Test arena, largely because Swann (and I really dislike him) allowed us to pick 6 strong batsmen and Prior (and we really had 6 strong batsmen too). But you can only pick what's available and we don't have either a spinner of that quality anymore or strength of batting.

What we do have is considerable talent in limited overs so at least we've got something and it is producing results as well.
Yes they are hamstrung by what they have to choose from. I think the main frustration has been the spin option and England could have tried something new well before Sydney on that front. It shouldn't be forgotten that our best batsman in the Ashes was probably Malan, who got his place almost solely off the back of a T20 innings. Perhaps we should be looking at picking more players who have coped with the step up to international level in white ball cricket rather than going for county journeyman for the Test team.
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Old 12th February 2018, 18:50   #465
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Yes they are hamstrung by what they have to choose from. I think the main frustration has been the spin option and England could have tried something new well before Sydney on that front. It shouldn't be forgotten that our best batsman in the Ashes was probably Malan, who got his place almost solely off the back of a T20 innings. Perhaps we should be looking at picking more players who have coped with the step up to international level in white ball cricket rather than going for county journeyman for the Test team.
True, David Warner was written off as a one day biffer but became a good test player. Perhaps England should go down the same road.
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Old 13th February 2018, 09:19   #466
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True, David Warner was written off as a one day biffer but became a good test player. Perhaps England should go down the same road.
Ironically, he's now a significantly better Test batsman than he is at Limited Overs where he's struggling to keep his place.

Problem is, we take decent ODI players like Hales and then ask them to change their game for Tests. I'd sooner he just played his natural game and if it comes off then he scores a quickfire century instead of achieving little before getting out.
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Old 13th February 2018, 13:11   #467
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... Problem is, we take decent ODI players like Hales and then ask them to change their game for Tests. I'd sooner he just played his natural game and if it comes off then he scores a quickfire century instead of achieving little before getting out.
My impression with Hales was that he tried to change his game because it wasn't appropriate for the longer format. Everyone in the media seemed to assume he'd been picked to biff it even when he was obviously blocking. Maybe he wasn't given instructions, or maybe he decided to ignore them. If the latter then I think he was right, and after all he did play some useful innings. Malan too when playing tests in England has batted very patiently. Warner had a chance of making it in tests with his belligerent approach because Australia play test cricket on super-flat pitches.
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