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Old 11th March 2016, 14:31   #141
Ali TT
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Wasn't a 38yo Dirk Nannes the dominant fast bowler in the 2014 blast then went home for the BBL and could barely buy a game, let alone a wicket?

But as Chin says, comparisons are pointless across the three leagues as teams, pitches, weather etc are all different. However, I would say that the IPL sides are the strongest as they can field four internationals plus 2-3 Indians internationals each giving them a clear advantage.
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Old 11th March 2016, 16:03   #142
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We were also told Matt Prior for one was fit when he came back for England in 2014, despite that being rubbish. I have said nothing of the sort in terms of removing t20 international records but I guess it would suit your agenda to move Pietersen's England t20 international record, even more so if you were to remove world t20 stats.
A handful of games spaced over a large period. Didn't you say something like that? Why would I want them removed? I maintain that up to c2010 was an outstanding cricketer. One of the best.
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Old 11th March 2016, 17:00   #143
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A handful of games spaced over a large period. Didn't you say something like that? Why would I want them removed? I maintain that up to c2010 was an outstanding cricketer. One of the best.
How would you describe his (I see we're not even allowed to name him) performances this English winter?
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Old 11th March 2016, 17:38   #144
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How would you describe his (I see we're not even allowed to name him) performances this English winter?
I did not follow overseas domestic cricket that closely to be honest. I paid a bit more notice to England winning in South Africa. I did see a few big bash matches. I saw Kallis bowl a glorious over to win a match when someone threw away a match they had all but won but the batting fell to pieces. I saw much of the final when kp looked like he had played a winning knock but alas it was not supposed to be. So nearly his first tournament win but instead Kallis got his full house.

I did not follow Pakistan at all. I did see that his innings in the final was the difference between winning and losing.

The fact that the big bash final saw two previously great players retire shows the standard of the competition so I take it With a pinch of salt but he must have done quite well.

Better to be part of a winning team than the odd standout performance. Maybe that is just me?
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Old 11th March 2016, 17:57   #145
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I did not follow overseas domestic cricket that closely to be honest. I paid a bit more notice to England winning in South Africa. I did see a few big bash matches. I saw Kallis bowl a glorious over to win a match when someone threw away a match they had all but won but the batting fell to pieces. I saw much of the final when kp looked like he had played a winning knock but alas it was not supposed to be. So nearly his first tournament win but instead Kallis got his full house.

I did not follow Pakistan at all. I did see that his innings in the final was the difference between winning and losing.

The fact that the big bash final saw two previously great players retire shows the standard of the competition so I take it With a pinch of salt but he must have done quite well.

Better to be part of a winning team than the odd standout performance. Maybe that is just me?
I agree it's better to be part of a winning team, it's the ECB you need to convince as they're not picking their best players.
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Old 11th March 2016, 18:03   #146
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
A handful of games spaced over a large period. Didn't you say something like that? Why would I want them removed? I maintain that up to c2010 was an outstanding cricketer. One of the best.
It was really only in his last year of international cricket that he fell off that high a level, but he probably should have been out of cricket for longer than he was as I said above in a period of woeful mismanagement of a number of players (Prior,Swann, Anderson bowling with a broken rib and others come to mind in terms of injury, Finn a dreadful in terms of trying to rejig his bowling).

I still find the notion that the Blast is better than the other t20 tournaments weird as there are so many mediocre medium pacers in our game let alone the IPL/Big Bash and I'm no real fan of those either.
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Old 11th March 2016, 19:18   #147
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I agree it's better to be part of a winning team, it's the ECB you need to convince as they're not picking their best players.
A couple of series wins from holding ALL of the trophies. Not bad. ODI we suck but he sucked at that since 2010.
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Old 11th March 2016, 19:20   #148
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It was really only in his last year of international cricket that he fell off that high a level, but he probably should have been out of cricket for longer than he was as I said above in a period of woeful mismanagement of a number of players (Prior,Swann, Anderson bowling with a broken rib and others come to mind in terms of injury, Finn a dreadful in terms of trying to rejig his bowling).

I still find the notion that the Blast is better than the other t20 tournaments weird as there are so many mediocre medium pacers in our game let alone the IPL/Big Bash and I'm no real fan of those either.
Ipl is the toughest imho. The others are much of a muchness but the quality of overseas players in the blast is the highest outside ipl. Oz has more t20 sides than first class. They dilute the talent. It is brilliantly marketed and well attended but then so is the premier league but it does not mean it is a higher standard then la liga.
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Old 11th March 2016, 21:25   #149
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Ipl is the toughest imho. The others are much of a muchness but the quality of overseas players in the blast is the highest outside ipl. Oz has more t20 sides than first class. They dilute the talent. It is brilliantly marketed and well attended but then so is the premier league but it does not mean it is a higher standard then la liga.
Surely the Blast (18 teams) is more diluted than the Big Bash (8 teams).

I'm not sure that I agree with you about the overseas players either.

The Big Bash had Sangakkara, Pietersen and Gayle who were probably the three biggest names in the Blast anyway. There was a higher percentage of Aussies as overseas players in the Blast than English players as overseas players in the Bash.

The Blast attracted more names, but that is because the talent was diluted and the overseas players would come in for a few games and then leave.

So your argument basically boils down to the fact that Kallis is a bit crap but was an overseas player in the Bash.
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Old 11th March 2016, 21:37   #150
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In Australia they only have overseas players in the Big Bash, so in State cricket there are 66 places for Australians in the teams and 72 places in the Big Bash, I'd hardly call it diluting the talent pool.
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Old 11th March 2016, 21:52   #151
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Have moved this conversation as it was a long way from any England debutante right now
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Old 11th March 2016, 22:28   #152
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Surely the Blast (18 teams) is more diluted than the Big Bash (8 teams).

I'm not sure that I agree with you about the overseas players either.

The Big Bash had Sangakkara, Pietersen and Gayle who were probably the three biggest names in the Blast anyway. There was a higher percentage of Aussies as overseas players in the Blast than English players as overseas players in the Bash.

The Blast attracted more names, but that is because the talent was diluted and the overseas players would come in for a few games and then leave.

So your argument basically boils down to the fact that Kallis is a bit crap but was an overseas player in the Bash.
The blast also attracts international players because it does not clash with 8 test nations playing. The Aussies who play blast don't play that much in the big bash. Odd isn't it. How many matches did maxwell play in the big bash compared to blast? How many of the Aussie test stars played in the big bash?

The Aussie talent is of course diluted with the squads being spread thinly while the test and ODI sides play. Or do they only have squads of 11 players?

I don't think anyone disagrees that having the big bash during the Christmas summer holiday in massive stadia in the handful of Aussie cities with more franchises than first class teams in a cricket loving country works

The only problem is that none of these factors apply to England.

The summer in this country is not Christmas
The weather is not as reliable
The stadia are much smaller
The population is spread over the whole country
The football season starts early in the school summer holiday so cricket window and summer hols don't align.

Why do people not see this and stop trying to assume that the same model would work here.
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Old 11th March 2016, 22:29   #153
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In Australia they only have overseas players in the Big Bash, so in State cricket there are 66 places for Australians in the teams and 72 places in the Big Bash, I'd hardly call it diluting the talent pool.
So with the 11 test players gone there are a significant number making up the numbers.
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Old 12th March 2016, 15:39   #154
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The blast also attracts international players because it does not clash with 8 test nations playing. The Aussies who play blast don't play that much in the big bash. Odd isn't it. How many matches did maxwell play in the big bash compared to blast? How many of the Aussie test stars played in the big bash?

The Aussie talent is of course diluted with the squads being spread thinly while the test and ODI sides play. Or do they only have squads of 11 players?

I don't think anyone disagrees that having the big bash during the Christmas summer holiday in massive stadia in the handful of Aussie cities with more franchises than first class teams in a cricket loving country works

The only problem is that none of these factors apply to England.

The summer in this country is not Christmas
The weather is not as reliable
The stadia are much smaller
The population is spread over the whole country
The football season starts early in the school summer holiday so cricket window and summer hols don't align.

Why do people not see this and stop trying to assume that the same model would work here.
And how many Blast matches do Joe Root and Ben Stokes play these days?

I've already comprehensively dismantled your arguments about the advantages Hobart has over Hampshire, so can't be bothered to school you again.
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Old 12th March 2016, 15:59   #155
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Didn't root play buttler when a sold out county match went to the last couple of balls.
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Old 12th March 2016, 17:10   #156
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Didn't root play buttler when a sold out county match went to the last couple of balls.
Such a rarity as to be memorable?
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Old 12th March 2016, 17:52   #157
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The blast also attracts international players because it does not clash with 8 test nations playing. The Aussies who play blast don't play that much in the big bash. Odd isn't it. How many matches did maxwell play in the big bash compared to blast? How many of the Aussie test stars played in the big bash?

The Aussie talent is of course diluted with the squads being spread thinly while the test and ODI sides play. Or do they only have squads of 11 players?

I don't think anyone disagrees that having the big bash during the Christmas summer holiday in massive stadia in the handful of Aussie cities with more franchises than first class teams in a cricket loving country works

The only problem is that none of these factors apply to England.

The summer in this country is not Christmas
The weather is not as reliable
The stadia are much smaller
The population is spread over the whole country
The football season starts early in the school summer holiday so cricket window and summer hols don't align.

Why do people not see this and stop trying to assume that the same model would work here.
All the reasons listed are correct. Some people don't realise how concentrated Australia's population is.

Having seen bits and pieces of the BB, it's nowhere near the standard of the IPL. I would say it's about on par with the Blast.
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Old 14th March 2016, 14:29   #158
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All the reasons listed are correct. Some people don't realise how concentrated Australia's population is.

Having seen bits and pieces of the BB, it's nowhere near the standard of the IPL. I would say it's about on par with the Blast.
Hobart
Greater Metropolitan Population (2014): 219,243
Mean rain in December (mm): 56.4
Mean rain days in December: 12.8
Mean max temp in December: 20.4
Big Bash finishing position 2015-16: second bottom
Big Bash Average attendance 2015-16: 16,640
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Old 14th March 2016, 15:10   #159
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Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
Hobart
Greater Metropolitan Population (2014): 219,243
Mean rain in December (mm): 56.4
Mean rain days in December: 12.8
Mean max temp in December: 20.4
Big Bash finishing position 2015-16: second bottom
Big Bash Average attendance 2015-16: 16,640
One city.

Now look at the rest of Australia.
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Old 14th March 2016, 15:17   #160
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Hobart
Greater Metropolitan Population (2014): 219,243
Mean rain in December (mm): 56.4
Mean rain days in December: 12.8
Mean max temp in December: 20.4
Big Bash finishing position 2015-16: second bottom
Big Bash Average attendance 2015-16: 16,640
Do you have the figures for the proportion who would list cricket as an interest? You get excited about this like it proves something.

Or are you trying to argue that the weather is better in England or that the English population is not spread over many more cities and towns?
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