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Old 21st July 2017, 13:10   #81
paulsre
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Originally Posted by WeAreKent View Post
That's 12 balls full and straight.

What happens if the batsman ramps the first two over the fine leg boundary- should the third one still be full and straight?

Fourth full and straight ball then gets slog swept for six by the batsman running down the wicket and the fifth one gets flicked over the ropes with a reverse ramp over third man.

Should the sixth ball still be full and straight?

The breathtaking ingenuity of modern batsmen means the days when you could just run up and bowl to such a simple formula time are long gone, Paul.
He was in a fortunate position that Leicestershire were well on top with new batsmen at the crease.

On the wider subject, what to bowl in T20 is the big question. I'm not sure anyone has cracked a special formula yet.
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Old 21st July 2017, 13:12   #82
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The breathtaking ingenuity of modern batsmen means the days when you could just run up and bowl to such a simple formula time are long gone, Paul.
Plus everything being in their favour. Shorter boundaries, for example.

The state of the art modern protection that means the most audacious shots can be attempted without the risk of physical harm. Can you imagine Brian Luckhurst attempting a ramp shot against Andy Roberts?

Pitches that do anything being frowned upon. Having watched numerous Royal London games played on airstrips this year, I'd love to see just one played on an emerald track or 1950s Oval bunsen. This is the scorecard from a televised IPL game I really enjoyed...

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8...er-League-2009

But I guess it's runs and lots of them that the people crave.
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Old 21st July 2017, 13:44   #83
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He was in a fortunate position that Leicestershire were well on top with new batsmen at the crease.
My impression from what little I've seen of Pillans with Surrey is that he's pretty quick but lacks guile and variation in his bowling. Anyone who is well set would probably fancy their chances of plundering runs from him.
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Old 21st July 2017, 13:46   #84
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Plus everything being in their favour. Shorter boundaries, for example.

The state of the art modern protection that means the most audacious shots can be attempted without the risk of physical harm. Can you imagine Brian Luckhurst attempting a ramp shot against Andy Roberts?
If you watch footage of the 1979 world cup final, Mike Hendrick bowls the last ball of the West Indies innings to Viv Richards, who is on 100 and plenty not out.

To try to prevent the great man from scoring, Hendrick bowls a bouncer as wide of the off-stump as he can get away with... and Richards moves across his crease and hooks it over square leg for six.

Jim Laker says something along the lines of "That's a once in a lifetime shot. There is no other batsman in the world could have played that."

That today we see shots like it a dozen times in every T20 fixture is ample evidence of how cricket has not only changed but is now an almost totally different and unrecognisable game.
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Old 21st July 2017, 13:48   #85
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Originally Posted by Summer of '77 View Post
Pitches that do anything being frowned upon. Having watched numerous Royal London games played on airstrips this year, I'd love to see just one played on an emerald track or 1950s Oval bunsen. This is the scorecard from a televised IPL game I really enjoyed...

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8...er-League-2009

But I guess it's runs and lots of them that the people crave.
Love that scorecard. There was a televised CPL match last year from Guyana (can't recall the visiting team) in which the team batting first made just over 100 and the pundits all reckoned (correctly) that it could be a winning total. The pitch was so slow that I don't think any batsmen wore a helmet, and one didn't even wear a pad on his back leg. Virtually every over bowled was spin.

*Just looked up the scorecard and in fact it was Jamaica batting second, and they won by seven wickets, but were only 53/3 in the 14th over chasing 101:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8...Premier-League

Last edited by Prince of Denmark : 21st July 2017 at 13:57. Reason: factual error
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Old 21st July 2017, 14:07   #86
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... cricket has not only changed but is now an almost totally different and unrecognisable game.
Yes, 2020 cricket is. Perhaps it should go by another name. Because at the same time as you say that cricket has changed so very much, there still exists cricket more or less as it always was. Yet nobody watches a boy-band concert and reflects on how much opera has changed. Though music and spectacle are involved in both, they are different products for different audiences (even if the audience of opera was once rather similar to the boy-band's present-day audience).

As for the debate about how to bowl in 2020 cricket, I recall what Boycott often says, that when the pitch is doing lots and the bowling is very good, the best batsman will play it from the non-strikers end.

I'm not being even remotely antagonistic in this post, by the way, so please don't respond like a kicked cat.
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Old 21st July 2017, 14:36   #87
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If you watch footage of the 1979 world cup final, Mike Hendrick bowls the last ball of the West Indies innings to Viv Richards, who is on 100 and plenty not out.

To try to prevent the great man from scoring, Hendrick bowls a bouncer as wide of the off-stump as he can get away with... and Richards moves across his crease and hooks it over square leg for six.

Jim Laker says something along the lines of "That's a once in a lifetime shot. There is no other batsman in the world could have played that."

That today we see shots like it a dozen times in every T20 fixture is ample evidence of how cricket has not only changed but is now an almost totally different and unrecognisable game.
It still looks like very much like cricket to me. I've often described the changes in cricket as like Dylan going electric - it's still the same bloke doing music, just a bit differently. Some disown it but most stay.

Benaud was the commentator at the end of that innings, btw. A few balls early, as Hendrick ducked to avoid being Fletchered by Richards, he commented "Very wise...who wants to be a hero at this stage of the game?".

I was at that final, supporting the team that lost, just as I was at Lord's to support Surrey in the RLC Final a few weeks ago. Nothing really changes that much.
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Old 21st July 2017, 14:44   #88
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In fact, far from being unrecognisable from past cricket T20 is very similar to the works games I played in the early 1980s - 20 overs per side, a range of ridiculous unorthodox shots on display, and the 'white clothing only' rule largely ignored. The pitches gave a bit to the bowlers, mind.
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Old 21st July 2017, 14:58   #89
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In fact, far from being unrecognisable from past cricket T20 is very similar to the works games I played in the early 1980s - 20 overs per side, a range of ridiculous unorthodox shots on display, and the 'white clothing only' rule largely ignored. The pitches gave a bit to the bowlers, mind.
I play 16 overs per game/8 a side cricket in a league in East London, not so many ridiculous shots unless they include my ungainly heaves across the line but not too much in it for the bowlers as the pitches are astroturf!
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Old 21st July 2017, 15:08   #90
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Plus everything being in their favour. Shorter boundaries, for example.

The state of the art modern protection that means the most audacious shots can be attempted without the risk of physical harm. Can you imagine Brian Luckhurst attempting a ramp shot against Andy Roberts?

Pitches that do anything being frowned upon. Having watched numerous Royal London games played on airstrips this year, I'd love to see just one played on an emerald track or 1950s Oval bunsen. This is the scorecard from a televised IPL game I really enjoyed...

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8...er-League-2009

But I guess it's runs and lots of them that the people crave.
Not everything is in the batsman's favour.

Once upon a time a batsman, let's call him Ian Bell, could make a pretty 50 off 70 balls and think he's done his job. Now that's not good enough 97 times out of 100.

Meanwhile a bowler would have been distraught at going round the park at 7.8 an over but now they'll more often than not take that in T20 cricket. Only going at a run a ball in the final over will make them a hero!
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Old 21st July 2017, 15:20   #91
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In fact, far from being unrecognisable from past cricket T20 is very similar to the works games I played in the early 1980s - 20 overs per side, a range of ridiculous unorthodox shots on display, and the 'white clothing only' rule largely ignored. The pitches gave a bit to the bowlers, mind.
Didn't we play a bit together, So77, in the Petts Wood mid-week side thirty and more years ago?

I must say I don't remember you hooking balls from two foot outside off over square-leg for six or your switch hit and ramps and scoops over the keeper's head!!! lol...
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Old 21st July 2017, 15:25   #92
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Didn't we play a bit together, So77, in the Petts Wood mid-week side thirty and more years ago?

I must say I don't remember you hooking balls from two foot outside off over square-leg for six or your switch hit and ramps and scoops over the keeper's head!!! lol...
I was playing the 'draw' shot years before Steve Smith revived it. Not intentionally, of course.
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Old 21st July 2017, 20:59   #93
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KP in the middle of controversy again.
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Old 21st July 2017, 23:18   #94
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KP in the middle of controversy again.
Yawn. Ran a few in the last match but doesn't really play cricket any more so obviously not fit for this one, but too important for this to be revealed before match. Ran out team mate because more important, then got out himself. Team won anyway, presumably because he is in team and very important. Next please.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 19:23   #95
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Big foot-of-the-table game tomorrow between Kent (8th place) and Sussex (9th place).

Whoever loses is going to struggle to make the q/fs.

Yes, there will still be loads of matches to go. But once you get to half a dozen games gone and are in 8th/9th place , it's very hard to catch up even if you are only a few points behind, because all the teams above are playing each other and so are bound to accumulate points, whatever happens.

I'm glad to see that Kent have given in to my repeated pleadings re triple-centurion Sean Dickson. He's in the squad for the first time in six games, although I'd still be surprised if the county's conservative management dare to drop any of the under-performing 'stars' in his favour.

As for Sussex, they will be hoping Tymal Mills is fit enough to play only his second game since getting injured in the IPL back in April. Kent's major threat with the bat comes from Denly and Bell-Drummond, who are the only in-form run-makers, and if Mills can shoot one of them out in the power play, Sussex will be a substantial way down the road to victory...
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Old 22nd July 2017, 19:37   #96
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I know DLS takes into account resources left when calculating the par score of a rain affected limited overs match. But does it also take into account the need for a really good start whilst in the power play overs when chasing 10 an over?

Northants 195-8 (20 overs)
Nottinghamshire 52-0 (5.1 overs)
Nottinghamshire (2 pts) beat Northamptonshire by 12 runs

OK that's roughly 10 per over for each side, but the winning target was only 40. Would 8 an over really be sufficient as a winning platform? I wonder if DLS still starts slowly then accelerates, rather than maybe starting fast, dipping slightly after the power play and then accelerating? Statistics for the end of a powerplay score against the eventual 20 over score might be revealing.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 21:29   #97
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I know DLS takes into account resources left when calculating the par score of a rain affected limited overs match. But does it also take into account the need for a really good start whilst in the power play overs when chasing 10 an over?

Northants 195-8 (20 overs)
Nottinghamshire 52-0 (5.1 overs)
Nottinghamshire (2 pts) beat Northamptonshire by 12 runs

OK that's roughly 10 per over for each side, but the winning target was only 40. Would 8 an over really be sufficient as a winning platform? I wonder if DLS still starts slowly then accelerates, rather than maybe starting fast, dipping slightly after the power play and then accelerating? Statistics for the end of a powerplay score against the eventual 20 over score might be revealing.
Its that early part of the innings that favours the team chasing, as long you don't lose wickets in the first five overs, you are likely to win the game.

Seems unfair, but I think Notts would have got the runs. I'm sure if I were a Northants fan I would be thinking differently, mind you.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 21:30   #98
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I know DLS takes into account resources left when calculating the par score of a rain affected limited overs match. But does it also take into account the need for a really good start whilst in the power play overs when chasing 10 an over?

Northants 195-8 (20 overs)
Nottinghamshire 52-0 (5.1 overs)
Nottinghamshire (2 pts) beat Northamptonshire by 12 runs

OK that's roughly 10 per over for each side, but the winning target was only 40. Would 8 an over really be sufficient as a winning platform? I wonder if DLS still starts slowly then accelerates, rather than maybe starting fast, dipping slightly after the power play and then accelerating? Statistics for the end of a powerplay score against the eventual 20 over score might be revealing.
I think the Duckworth-Lewis system views all overs as equally valuable resources for the batting side, regardless of whether it's a "powerplay" or not. The alternative would presumably be quite complicated ...
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Old 23rd July 2017, 14:36   #99
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I think the Duckworth-Lewis system views all overs as equally valuable resources for the batting side, regardless of whether it's a "powerplay" or not. The alternative would presumably be quite complicated ...
I would imagine the calculations behind Duckworth Lewis Stern are undeniably complicated, already (and Stern has refined it for T20). Clearly this is already out of date: http://www.boltoncricket.co.uk/DLcalc.html

Maybe the answer in T20 is to say 10 overs minimum, so that each innings has time to develop. Isn't 10 overs short enough?

A target of 40/0 in 5 overs chasing a theoretical 190+ seems very easy when it would all be with fielding restricting during the powerplay. Over 10 overs suspect the target would have been 85/0 ish or 95/1. Harder.
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Old 23rd July 2017, 16:09   #100
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Hard day at the office

Hastings to Willey
4(nb) 6 2 1w 6 . 5w 4 4

@OptaJim
@david_willey has just recorded the highest ever T20 innings score for @YorkshireCCC (118)

Worcs getting their own back
Willey 2-0-25-0
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..
Jordan
2-0-26-0
3-0-43-1

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