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Old 23rd July 2017, 16:46   #101
sanskritsimon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred View Post
... Stern has refined it for T20 ...
I didn't know that ...
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Old 23rd July 2017, 18:32   #102
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Originally Posted by sanskritsimon View Post
I didn't know that ...
well, I believe so.

From the wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duckworth–Lewis_method

2009
In June 2009, it was reported that the D/L method would be reviewed for the Twenty20 format after its appropriateness was questioned in the quickest version of the game. Lewis was quoted admitting that "Certainly, people have suggested that we need to look very carefully and see whether in fact the numbers in our formula are totally appropriate for the Twenty20 game."

2015 – Becomes DLS
For the 2015 World Cup, the ICC implemented the Duckworth–Lewis–Stern formula, which included work by the new custodian of the method, Professor Steven Stern, from the Department of Statistics at Queensland University of Technology. These changes recognised that teams need to start out with a higher scoring rate when chasing high targets rather than keep wickets in hand.
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Old 23rd July 2017, 19:37   #103
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Originally Posted by 1000yardstare View Post
Hard day at the office

Hastings to Willey
4(nb) 6 2 1w 6 . 5w 4 4

@OptaJim
@david_willey has just recorded the highest ever T20 innings score for @YorkshireCCC (118)

Worcs getting their own back
Willey 2-0-25-0
Bresnan 2-0-36-1
..
Jordan
2-0-26-0
3-0-43-1
And then this happened...

15.1 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.2 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.3 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.4 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.5 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.6 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
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Old 23rd July 2017, 20:17   #104
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I would imagine the calculations behind Duckworth Lewis Stern are undeniably complicated, already (and Stern has refined it for T20). Clearly this is already out of date: http://www.boltoncricket.co.uk/DLcalc.html

Maybe the answer in T20 is to say 10 overs minimum, so that each innings has time to develop. Isn't 10 overs short enough?

A target of 40/0 in 5 overs chasing a theoretical 190+ seems very easy when it would all be with fielding restricting during the powerplay. Over 10 overs suspect the target would have been 85/0 ish or 95/1. Harder.
Getting to 40/0 off 5 overs is hardly trivial and represents a very decent platform for a big chase. More importantly though, while the batting side would have known they had enough to win on DLS when the rain started falling (indeed, Hales played a couple defensively), that's not the same as the target would have been for a reduced chase off 5 overs, which I imagine would have been more like 62. The difference being that wickets matter hugely in the first instance so you can't be reckless in risking them, because you need far more runs if 2 down say, whereas if it's a definite chase target, you can prioritise the run rate far more.
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Old 23rd July 2017, 21:16   #105
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D/L certanly seems beyond the ken of the commentators on BBC radios Kent and Sussex.

As I left Lords after a great day at the women's final, I tuned into the radio app on my mobile phone and heard that Sussex were about to start their eight over chase.

When I got to Victoria, I logged on again and heard the Radio Kent commentator triumphantly claiming a "brilliant" Kent victory due to some "fanatastic bowling" by Claydon and telling us that Kent's T20 campaign was now on the charge.

I got on the train feeling doubly happy at Kent and England victories.

Then when I got home, I read on cricinfo that 'Kent salvage tie with last ball run-out'. WTF?

Looking at the scorecard I cannot even begin to see how the Radio Kent buffoon got the result wrong (and to be fair to him, the Radio Sussex idiot seemed to go along with it).

Kent's score was readjusted by D/L to 87, so Sussex needed 88 to win.They scored 87, hence a tie. What scope for misunderstanding is there in that?

I appreciate the Radio Kent bloke is not on the BBC's 150k + list. But even if he's only on one-tenth of that, such incompetence is surely a sackable offence.

It quite ruined an othwerwise wonderful day!
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Old 23rd July 2017, 23:29   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali TT View Post
And then this happened...

15.1 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.2 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.3 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.4 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.5 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.6 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
Willey and Whiteley the 6 hitters, 16 between them. Among all the carnage Patterson 3-0-8-1 bowling at the end.
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Old 24th July 2017, 11:31   #107
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I know DLS takes into account resources left when calculating the par score of a rain affected limited overs match. But does it also take into account the need for a really good start whilst in the power play overs when chasing 10 an over?

Northants 195-8 (20 overs)
Nottinghamshire 52-0 (5.1 overs)
Nottinghamshire (2 pts) beat Northamptonshire by 12 runs

OK that's roughly 10 per over for each side, but the winning target was only 40. Would 8 an over really be sufficient as a winning platform? I wonder if DLS still starts slowly then accelerates, rather than maybe starting fast, dipping slightly after the power play and then accelerating? Statistics for the end of a powerplay score against the eventual 20 over score might be revealing.
Yeah, I thought the same thing too. I thought Notts winning was probably just about fair enough but then I saw the margin of victory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali TT View Post
And then this happened...

15.1 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.2 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.3 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.4 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.5 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
15.6 Carver to Whiteley, SIX runs,
This is the perfect example of why the Blast needs to change. This incredible feat has received virtually no exposure. Where's the video trending of it? Where are the newspaper reports of it? This is only the second mention I've seen of it.

Now partly that's because cricinfo is now unusable but even so there should be other sources covering cricket.
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Old 24th July 2017, 11:44   #108
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This is the perfect example of why the Blast needs to change. This incredible feat has received virtually no exposure. Where's the video trending of it? Where are the newspaper reports of it?
I was thinking exactly the same thing.

Unfortunately I feel this has little to do with the Blast itself, but that the newspapers at least are just totally obsessed with football coverage.

They no longer send reporters to matches, so when something like this happens, if they bother to cover it, it is a short piece cobbled together on the desk with a borrowed quote.

I am not sure that when the new competition starts that they are going to start sending reporters to regularly report on the matches. They are simply much more interested in covering football.
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Old 24th July 2017, 11:48   #109
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I was thinking exactly the same thing.

Unfortunately I feel this has little to do with the Blast itself, but that the newspapers at least are just totally obsessed with football coverage.

They no longer send reporters to matches, so when something like this happens, if they bother to cover it, it is a short piece cobbled together on the desk with a borrowed quote.

I am not sure that when the new competition starts that they are going to start sending reporters to regularly report on the matches. They are simply much more interested in covering football.
If it's a Big Bash/IPL style competition when there's only one match on at a time, I think there's a better chance of newspaper coverage.

Also, games being televised means there's a greater chance of them being reported on.

Do we know if every Franchise Cup game will be televised?
Do we know if it will be just one Franchise Cup game a day?
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Old 24th July 2017, 11:58   #110
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Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
... This is the perfect example of why the Blast needs to change. This incredible feat has received virtually no exposure. Where's the video trending of it? Where are the newspaper reports of it? This is only the second mention I've seen of it.

Now partly that's because cricinfo is now unusable but even so there should be other sources covering cricket.
I agree slightly, but I think more to the point, this "incredible feat" just isn't particularly special or unexpected. Since a six is the best scoring shot and the game is set up such that you need to get as many runs as possible as fast as possible, runs of sixes are only to be expected. The game is simply doing what the rules are set up to encourage it to do. I'm not sure what change to the "Blast" you'd suggest in the wake of this.
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Old 24th July 2017, 12:05   #111
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Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post

This is the perfect example of why the Blast needs to change. This incredible feat has received virtually no exposure. Where's the video trending of it? Where are the newspaper reports of it? This is only the second mention I've seen of it.

Now partly that's because cricinfo is now unusable but even so there should be other sources covering cricket.


Even if this happens in a franchise game in a few years, if it coincides with the last day of the Tour de France (British winner), the last round of the Open Golf and the final of the Women's cricket world cup at Lords (English victory), it won't get much more coverage.
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Old 24th July 2017, 12:54   #112
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If it's a Big Bash/IPL style competition when there's only one match on at a time, I think there's a better chance of newspaper coverage.

Also, games being televised means there's a greater chance of them being reported on.

Do we know if every Franchise Cup game will be televised?
Do we know if it will be just one Franchise Cup game a day?
My understanding is that it will be one or at most two maches per day (played at different times in the latter case, though, as the intention is that every game will be televised).

So if a batsman repeats Whiteley's feat in the new super-league, it will be live on TV, ensuring blanket coverage as the footage will be available for broadcast on news programmes and for embedding in newspaper websites.

Yesterday it happened in a non-televised game that was just one of 130-or- so fixtures in the vast Blast, so lacked any context of it being an event or an occasion.
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Old 24th July 2017, 13:40   #113
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Now partly that's because cricinfo is now unusable but even so there should be other sources covering cricket.
Cricinfo does seem to have taken a huge step backwards.
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Old 24th July 2017, 14:51   #114
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Yesterday it happened in a non-televised game that was just one of 130-or- so fixtures in the vast Blast, so lacked any context of it being an event or an occasion.
I don't know why it is considered that the format of the Blast is "vast". All done in less than two months. Just 14 qualifying matches per side (so a mere 7 home matches per side per calendar year), quarters, finals day, done.

Compare that with many other team sports competitions. In the National Hockey League they play 82 matches each over 7 months - and that's just to determine the sides who make the play-offs, which then run for another two months!
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Old 24th July 2017, 15:30   #115
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I don't know why it is considered that the format of the Blast is "vast". All done in less than two months. Just 14 qualifying matches per side (so a mere 7 home matches per side per calendar year), quarters, finals day, done.

Compare that with many other team sports competitions. In the National Hockey League they play 82 matches each over 7 months - and that's just to determine the sides who make the play-offs, which then run for another two months!
Well done on finding the sport with a lower profile than county cricket!

That may not be the best role model.

I think there are two ways to go: the baseball method and the NFL method.

In baseball your team plays virtually every night throughout the season (162 games in total to make the play-offs). The season (and indeed matches) provides a backdrop to drop in and out of.

In NFL there are just 16 matches and each match is a huge event. Almost every play is important.

In cricket tests used to take the NFL model and county games the baseball model. They've now moved too closely together and lacks the novelty of the NFL approach or the regularity of the baseball approach.
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Old 24th July 2017, 16:11   #116
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I don't know why it is considered that the format of the Blast is "vast".
Very simple, Paul.

Because it started in 2003 as 5 games per county in three groups of six - and since then has kept on growing.

It expanded first to 8 matches per county, then 10 - and by 2010 had swelled to 16 matches per county, an inflation rate of 320 per cent in seven years.

Everybody realised that was way OTT and by 2012 it had been cut back again to 10 matches per county.

It has since crept back-up to 14 matches, because many of the counties demanded more - and were happy to accept cutting back the number of CC matches from 16 to 14 as a quid pro quo.

So it is vast. For the 15 years it has been running, it spent ten of those years as a much leaner tournament of between 5 and 10 matches per county.
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Old 24th July 2017, 18:03   #117
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BTW, the second season of the Kia Super T20 League gets under way in two weeks time.

An early opportunity to test the doom-mongering of those who talk down our great game by claiming that "nobody will watch meaningless franchise teams with no history" (direct quote from one of the most negative posters on here!)

All of England's world cup winning heroes will be playing and having been part of a sell-out crowd at Lords yesterday, I reckon there will be some decent crowds to cheer them on...

Sky will show six games live, starting with Charlotte Edwards' Southern Vipers v Heather Knight and Anya Shrubsole's s Western Storm on Aug 10, as well as the finals day at Hove on Sept 1.
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Old 24th July 2017, 18:04   #118
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Well done on finding the sport with a lower profile than county cricket!
depends where you are.

Cricket in Canada/US against in the UK
or Hockey in the UK against in the Canada / US

Taking the two together Hockey has a far higher profile.

I also suspect there are more people who post on http://www.thehockeyforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
than on
http://www.cricket247.org/forumdisplay.php?f=12
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Old 24th July 2017, 18:27   #119
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BTW, the second season of the Kia Super T20 League gets under way in two weeks time, with the Southern Vipers, Western Storm, Loughborough Lightning etc.

An early opportunity to test the claims of those who talk down our great game by claiming that "nobody will watch franchise teams with no history" (direct quote from one of the doom-sayers on here!)

All of England's world cup winning heroes of yesterday will be playing and having been part of a sell-out crowd at Lords yesterday, I reckon there will be some decent crowds to cheer them on...
I certainly hope so But, it's a pity that, as with the World Cup, only one game is being played in Greater London.
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Old 24th July 2017, 18:35   #120
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I certainly hope so But, it's a pity that, as with the World Cup, only one game is being played in Greater London.
As a member of Corbyn's liberal metropolitan elite you would say that, Rob!
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