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Old 5th March 2018, 22:52   #1701
Jock McTuffnel v3
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Poor old Mason getting more grief for a couple of games where he didn’t take wickets.

Can’t wait until the test team slow bowler gets the same treatment.
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Old 7th March 2018, 09:33   #1702
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Is this scorecard right?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/scorecard/ECKO42095

The unplayable Worrican 0/55 off 10
the under the radar Parkinson 2/37 off 10 and then 15* in a last wicket hundred partnership before Hain falling 5 runs short with 2 balls left.
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Old 7th March 2018, 09:45   #1703
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It was a bit like the collpase of the full side in New Zealand last night - the Lions lost 7 wkts for 45 and a daddy century ended up on the losing side.

Five wickets for Keemo Paul. I remarked on here a few weeks ago when I saw him play for Guyana v Kent that there was something of Jofra Archer about him.
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Old 10th March 2018, 03:37   #1704
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Another loss for the Lions. What's happened to Keaton Jennings?
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Old 10th March 2018, 09:33   #1705
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Times must be tough when your calling up Derbyshire players.
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Old 10th March 2018, 09:36   #1706
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That team the Lions are putting out is total junk.
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Old 10th March 2018, 17:30   #1707
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That team the Lions are putting out is total junk.
who would you pick?
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Old 11th March 2018, 11:30   #1708
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who would you pick?
Thatís not an unreasonable question I guess and the short answer is Iím not sure. However, if you look at that team how many do you think will play ODI cricket? Sam Curran almost certainly and maybe Sam Hain. Thatís about it.
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Old 11th March 2018, 16:01   #1709
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That’s not an unreasonable question I guess and the short answer is I’m not sure. However, if you look at that team how many do you think will play ODI cricket? Sam Curran almost certainly and maybe Sam Hain. That’s about it.
Even if it's 5 it's still less than half of the team, it just means that the cupboard is a bit bare at the moment. You can't exactly cancel tours because your team is weak. You can only mix and match those chosen to include some with some experience and some without who it might be worth taking a punt on, and rely on your coaching.

The problem will always be that those who almost certainly will go on and play ODI cricket for England will always be fast tracked and be squad members in any senior tour.

Isn't it better that way than put out a genuine second XI, who you have looked at over and over again.
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Old 11th March 2018, 22:07   #1710
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Apparently Flower has hardly been a big fan of Leach, hence why the man isn't flavour of the month with the senior set up when the senior side is dying for new blood.
Can you blame him given before this tour every time Leach put on an England shirt for a representative XI his performances matched what you'd expect from your local village 2nd XI spinner?
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Old 11th March 2018, 22:10   #1711
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That’s not an unreasonable question I guess and the short answer is I’m not sure. However, if you look at that team how many do you think will play ODI cricket? Sam Curran almost certainly and maybe Sam Hain. That’s about it.
Bit harsh to be writing off Parkinson and Bess already given their ages and limited experience?
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Old 11th March 2018, 22:16   #1712
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That’s not an unreasonable question I guess and the short answer is I’m not sure. However, if you look at that team how many do you think will play ODI cricket? Sam Curran almost certainly and maybe Sam Hain. That’s about it.
Following on from what Fred said, I'm not sure you'd ever expect many of the Lions to play for the senior team. These days the senior England XI in any real format (i.e., tests and ODIs) is a fairly settled thing. It's pretty hard to get dropped from the senior team unless you fall out with someone important -- those who are dropped merely for not being good enough are put back in again at the first opportunity -- so the team stays more or less the same for many years on the trot. The Lions on the other hand tends to consist of whoever's done well in county cricket recently, which changes enormously from year to year. The openings in the senior side for the best of the Lions team are few and far between. By the time they appear, the chances are that the best of the rest will have had several Lions tours already and be considered over the hill. I suppose all this also means there's no real point in impressing the management by performing well for the Lions. As Fred says, if one is favoured one will probably be fast-tracked anyway.
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Old 11th March 2018, 23:01   #1713
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Bit harsh to be writing off Parkinson and Bess already given their ages and limited experience?
Iím certainly not writing either off. Theyíre both very promising.
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Old 11th March 2018, 23:28   #1714
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Following on from what Fred said, I'm not sure you'd ever expect many of the Lions to play for the senior team. These days the senior England XI in any real format (i.e., tests and ODIs) is a fairly settled thing. It's pretty hard to get dropped from the senior team unless you fall out with someone important -- those who are dropped merely for not being good enough are put back in again at the first opportunity -- so the team stays more or less the same for many years on the trot. The Lions on the other hand tends to consist of whoever's done well in county cricket recently, which changes enormously from year to year. The openings in the senior side for the best of the Lions team are few and far between. By the time they appear, the chances are that the best of the rest will have had several Lions tours already and be considered over the hill. I suppose all this also means there's no real point in impressing the management by performing well for the Lions. As Fred says, if one is favoured one will probably be fast-tracked anyway.
I think a quick look back over Lions' sides from recent years would suggest this assumption is mistaken. For example, looking at the sides that toured South Africa in 2014/15 and Sri Lanka the winter before, typically 9-10 in each XI had already played for England or would go on to subsequently.

Even the squad that turned out for the one day games v South Africa A at home last summer included 9 players who now have full honours.
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:12   #1715
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Can you blame him given before this tour every time Leach put on an England shirt for a representative XI his performances matched what you'd expect from your local village 2nd XI spinner?
To be fair you are only talking about last winter when he was having rehab on his bowling action. After taking some time to get it sorted he started taking wickets again in domestic cricket and has at least had a successful tour this time around. He may not be the answer to England's problems but that doesn't mean to continue sticking around with some guys who don't seem to exactly set the world alight at senior England level, let alone one guy that they have taken a punt on (Crane) who apparently is struggling with his run-up.
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Old 12th March 2018, 09:48   #1716
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Finally a win. Parkinson in on the act again, but Jennings still fails:

http://cricketwestindies.org/index.php/match-centre/
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Old 12th March 2018, 13:55   #1717
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I think a quick look back over Lions' sides from recent years would suggest this assumption is mistaken. For example, looking at the sides that toured South Africa in 2014/15 and Sri Lanka the winter before, typically 9-10 in each XI had already played for England or would go on to subsequently.

Even the squad that turned out for the one day games v South Africa A at home last summer included 9 players who now have full honours.
Thanks for the correction Ali, I'm sure you're right. That was just a hunch of mine based on impressions. Still it might seem as if there aren't many openings in the senior side unless things are going a bit wrong. We've probably had a bit more turnover in the batting than we'd like recently, but there are always going to be one-off spots for seamers in case of injury and for spinners in case of certain away games. Anyway Fred is right to say that the Lions-level team can be stronger or weaker depending on how developmental a view the selectors are taking with it.
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Old 12th March 2018, 19:03   #1718
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Can you blame him given before this tour every time Leach put on an England shirt for a representative XI his performances matched what you'd expect from your local village 2nd XI spinner?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chin Music View Post
To be fair you are only talking about last winter when he was having rehab on his bowling action. After taking some time to get it sorted he started taking wickets again in domestic cricket and has at least had a successful tour this time around. He may not be the answer to England's problems but that doesn't mean to continue sticking around with some guys who don't seem to exactly set the world alight at senior England level, let alone one guy that they have taken a punt on (Crane) who apparently is struggling with his run-up.
Sounds to me that in consecutive winters an English spin prospect has gone on tour with Andy Flower and ended up with problems in his fundamentals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanskritsimon View Post
Thanks for the correction Ali, I'm sure you're right. That was just a hunch of mine based on impressions. Still it might seem as if there aren't many openings in the senior side unless things are going a bit wrong. We've probably had a bit more turnover in the batting than we'd like recently, but there are always going to be one-off spots for seamers in case of injury and for spinners in case of certain away games. Anyway Fred is right to say that the Lions-level team can be stronger or weaker depending on how developmental a view the selectors are taking with it.
As you say a lot of turnover recently, meaning players who might have been touring with the Lions have actually been accelerated to the senior side.
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Old 12th March 2018, 19:33   #1719
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To be fair you are only talking about last winter when he was having rehab on his bowling action. After taking some time to get it sorted he started taking wickets again in domestic cricket and has at least had a successful tour this time around. He may not be the answer to England's problems but that doesn't mean to continue sticking around with some guys who don't seem to exactly set the world alight at senior England level, let alone one guy that they have taken a punt on (Crane) who apparently is struggling with his run-up.
It wasn't only last winter though, he was also poor for the Lions in the summer and in Australia which to me given he's quite often had serious struggles against opposition that are arguably not even county standard suggests he struggled to step up mentally or some other similar issue.
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Old 13th March 2018, 09:21   #1720
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It wasn't only last winter though, he was also poor for the Lions in the summer and in Australia which to me given he's quite often had serious struggles against opposition that are arguably not even county standard suggests he struggled to step up mentally or some other similar issue.
It still isn't a lot of evidence as he didn't bowl very many overs in Australia. As I said above, I'm not completely sold on him as a test bowler but some of the players who seem to 'train smart' as our Aussie poster said above don't exactly seem to be pulling up trees either and seem a long way short of test class think of Dawson & Crane to name but two.
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