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Old 26th January 2018, 18:21   #4501
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Yep.I saw him at Trent Bridge in 2013 (the innings Agar got 98). His run up and action disintegrated. I think that was after the first remodel because of the Smith rule change. Think he's remodeled again, with a shorter run, but it's a pretty mechanical, ugly action and he's lost about 5mph.
I hate it when they remodel actions. England were very lucky they didn't completely ruin Anderson back in the day. I don't give Moores credit for very much but picking and backing Jimmy when he was almost ruined was a great decision.
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Old 29th January 2018, 18:06   #4502
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I hate it when they remodel actions. England were very lucky they didn't completely ruin Anderson back in the day. I don't give Moores credit for very much but picking and backing Jimmy when he was almost ruined was a great decision.
I agree that there is a tendency to overcoach based on some concept that techniques have to conform, Finn has to take some responsibility for his own travails. When he first burst onto the scene, he kept falling over in his follow through. Then he kept running into the stumps, which got banned. I'm not sure the coaches can be blamed for him doing either.
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Old 12th March 2018, 14:03   #4503
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And the selection panel changes. Whittaker "stepping down".
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Old 12th March 2018, 14:12   #4504
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And the selection panel changes. Whittaker "stepping down".
A panel of 3

National Selector
England Selector
England coach

What is the difference between the first two?

Came across this
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/crick...flower-4027001

I would have though that Strauss would have selected him but it seems not. Flower still in charge of the Lions four years later. Does he keep his job after the WI tour?

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Old 12th March 2018, 15:59   #4505
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Story says that the "England selector" is to be independent (i.e., not also working for a specific county?).

There will also be several discipline-specific scouts.

Sounds like it's all worth a try.
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Old 12th March 2018, 17:26   #4506
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Read a suggestion that Flower might be a candidate for head selector. Question is - where could he do the least harm, selector or coach? I would like to see the back of him completely.
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Old 12th March 2018, 17:41   #4507
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Read a suggestion that Flower might be a candidate for head selector. Question is - where could he do the least harm, selector or coach? I would like to see the back of him completely.
Selector, but like you I'm struggling to see why he's still employed at all.
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Old 12th March 2018, 18:04   #4508
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Read a suggestion that Flower might be a candidate for head selector. Question is - where could he do the least harm, selector or coach? I would like to see the back of him completely.
I wonder how long he has left with the Lions?

They've been a shambles on this tour and whilst it's about developing players for international cricket rather than results there haven't exactly been many players developed successfully for international cricket under his watch.
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Old 12th March 2018, 18:39   #4509
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Story says that the "England selector" is to be independent (i.e., not also working for a specific county?).

There will also be several discipline-specific scouts.

Sounds like it's all worth a try.
Yes I'm all for these changes, I've thought for a while that they should go in this direction. Having fewer selectors, with no conflicts of interest, and the coach having a bigger say is a decent mix.
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Old 12th March 2018, 19:46   #4510
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Originally Posted by 1000yardstare View Post
A panel of 3

National Selector
England Selector
England coach

What is the difference between the first two?

Came across this
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/crick...flower-4027001

I would have though that Strauss would have selected him but it seems not. Flower still in charge of the Lions four years later. Does he keep his job after the WI tour?
Made up of "a new national selector and a full-time independent England selector"

Why wouldn't the new national selector also be independent?

Anyway it seems that the difference is that the full-time "independent" England selector will be appointed by the National Selector.
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Old 12th March 2018, 22:36   #4511
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And the selection panel changes. Whittaker "stepping down".
Ring a ding ding. Ding dong the witch is dead.
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Old 12th March 2018, 22:41   #4512
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Yes I'm all for these changes, I've thought for a while that they should go in this direction. Having fewer selectors, with no conflicts of interest, and the coach having a bigger say is a decent mix.
I still don't see why the coach isn't given the responsibility to pick the whole squad, much like international football coaches do, and able to appoint their own scouts to watch domestic matches. I don't see any value in selectors who have no other role, no visibility, no accountability and who hide when their selections don't pan out.
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Old 13th March 2018, 08:42   #4513
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And the selection panel changes. Whittaker "stepping down".
He must have accidentally let slip to Graves that he actually likes county cricket.
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Old 13th March 2018, 10:10   #4514
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I still don't see why the coach isn't given the responsibility to pick the whole squad, much like international football coaches do, and able to appoint their own scouts to watch domestic matches. I don't see any value in selectors who have no other role, no visibility, no accountability and who hide when their selections don't pan out.
Aren't England even worse at football than Wales? I'm not sure we want to hold that method up as a shining example. I think it would make for a lack of continuity, as the coach is usually foreign, may know nothing prior to appointment about the English system that produces our players, and may not be in post for more than a few years. I think many of the obvious problems in recent years have been about individual coaches or star players trying to run the show, when really they're temporary custodians of something much bigger than they are. In that respect I quite like the relative anonymity of the selectors. The selectors are officially accountable to their boss, but in practical terms they're unofficially accountable to the newspaper, radio and TV old boys club of ex-player commentators. There's an awful lot wrong with that system, for sure -- effectively the reason for the current arguments about Crane and Leach is that the selectors' plans for the next spinner off the rank, Liam Dawson, had to be shelved after the media outcry when he was picked on a pitch that wasn't completely useless for seam bowling -- but there is certainly accountability, if only to something resembling a mob.
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Old 13th March 2018, 20:10   #4515
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Aren't England even worse at football than Wales? I'm not sure we want to hold that method up as a shining example. I think it would make for a lack of continuity, as the coach is usually foreign, may know nothing prior to appointment about the English system that produces our players, and may not be in post for more than a few years. I think many of the obvious problems in recent years have been about individual coaches or star players trying to run the show, when really they're temporary custodians of something much bigger than they are. In that respect I quite like the relative anonymity of the selectors. The selectors are officially accountable to their boss, but in practical terms they're unofficially accountable to the newspaper, radio and TV old boys club of ex-player commentators. There's an awful lot wrong with that system, for sure -- effectively the reason for the current arguments about Crane and Leach is that the selectors' plans for the next spinner off the rank, Liam Dawson, had to be shelved after the media outcry when he was picked on a pitch that wasn't completely useless for seam bowling -- but there is certainly accountability, if only to something resembling a mob.
The English FA isn't the best example. Using the same metaphor you can pick from Alex Ferguson, Don Revie, Bob Shankley, Bob Paisley, and so on. The system works, and the poorer managers get sacked, whereas we've been stuck with Whittaker since he became a selector in 2008, so not sure you're right re accountability.
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Old 15th March 2018, 09:52   #4516
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The English FA isn't the best example. Using the same metaphor you can pick from Alex Ferguson, Don Revie, Bob Shankley, Bob Paisley, and so on. The system works, and the poorer managers get sacked, whereas we've been stuck with Whittaker since he became a selector in 2008, so not sure you're right re accountability.
From an international perspective football managers have plenty of time to go and watch players at club level, you'll often see not only the England manager but plenty of foreign international managers at PL games for example, international cricket coaches just don't have the time to do that with the packed international schedule.

While football club managers don't have the same amount of "spare" time to watch prospective players at other clubs they generally get to spend plenty of time watching the youth players at their teams although that amount of time varies widely from club to club (ie plenty of clubs send their best youngsters on loan whereas others don't).
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Old 15th March 2018, 10:17   #4517
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From an international perspective football managers have plenty of time to go and watch players at club level, you'll often see not only the England manager but plenty of foreign international managers at PL games for example, international cricket coaches just don't have the time to do that with the packed international schedule.

While football club managers don't have the same amount of "spare" time to watch prospective players at other clubs they generally get to spend plenty of time watching the youth players at their teams although that amount of time varies widely from club to club (ie plenty of clubs send their best youngsters on loan whereas others don't).
I don’t think that changes anything though, he still has time to watch some matches, and any telly highlights. And his assistants should be doing the scouting work. It seems an absurd system to lump a coach with players he mightn’t want, at the expense of players he does want or have the wrong players for his system of choice. What we have is a terrible working model and a recipe for failure.
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Old 15th March 2018, 10:46   #4518
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I donít think that changes anything though, he still has time to watch some matches, and any telly highlights. And his assistants should be doing the scouting work. It seems an absurd system to lump a coach with players he mightnít want, at the expense of players he does want or have the wrong players for his system of choice. What we have is a terrible working model and a recipe for failure.
It changes everything, an international football manager gets to go and watch 2 or 3 games every week of the season to look at prospective players, a cricket coach probably only has that opportunity for what 4 weeks a year? His assistants as you call them should be the selectors in the current structure, they should work for him. His actual assistants ie bowling coach, batting coach have the same lack of opportunity as the head coach as they're working with the first team.
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Old 15th March 2018, 18:02   #4519
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It changes everything, an international football manager gets to go and watch 2 or 3 games every week of the season to look at prospective players, a cricket coach probably only has that opportunity for what 4 weeks a year? His assistants as you call them should be the selectors in the current structure, they should work for him. His actual assistants ie bowling coach, batting coach have the same lack of opportunity as the head coach as they're working with the first team.

Na, you’re not winning me over. I don’t think football coaches do go to two or three games a week. Certainly not during my lifetime, they spend more time on computer databases and tv replays. Same as cricket coaches. I don’t know any competitive sport where panels of selectors works. And in cricket, it’s worse because you also have Strauss doing whatever the heck he’s doing as well. No accountability at the top at all. A complete recipe to fail.
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Old 15th March 2018, 20:16   #4520
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the England football team used to have a panel of selectors until Alf Ramsey took the job and insisted on getting rid of it. It never worked very well but apart from the first few years of Ramsey's regime having the manager doing it hasn't either.
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