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Old 8th January 2015, 13:21   #21
beefy
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Originally Posted by Summer of '77 View Post
A joke...or simply a different perspective born from a different national psyche? I would suggest that there are many in the UK - or more specifically England - who adhere to the notion that sport is important because it's unimportant, ie it's a brilliant entertainment through which to socialise and let one's emotions let rip whilst ultimately meaning diddly squat in the big scheme of things. I'm one of those who prefers a close Ashes series to an overwhelming England victory, because exciting cricket is more important to me than the idea that somehow my self esteem is enhanced if England win at a ball game. I've played club cricket in Australia and England and much preferred the home variety because it was more about having fun on my day off than winning above all else. I recognise that others feel very differently, and more so in certain nations, and I don't claim my perspective is superior. Just different, and as equally valid.
I respect your reasonings, and I suspect you're amongst many amongst English cricket following and set up who feel the same, but this only validates what i said about our whole cricketing culture is set up to 'take part' rather than ever being a dominant destructive force that all other nations bow to like Australia were for so long and will be again.
SA have been amongst the top for a long time too and the Windies before Oz, all 3 hugely arrogant nations who play for utter demolition of the opposition to suggest the opposition should get a bit of leniency would be laughed at. English cricket has always been upper middle class and as a result the mindset and culture is very much as you alude to, it's all just jolly nice to see a good contest, winning comes second.

That's a respectable and honourable viewpoint, but then I'd point out the fact sport is a genuine profession now, this isn't the 60's, there's millions of viewers, billions of pounds and thousands of employees involved around the world. It's easy as a spectator to say "it's just a sport" (how i detest that saying), but for people like me 'just a sport' has been my bread and butter for years, it's built my house paid my bills and fed my family, if results were poor i'd lose it all.
So we've got to ask is English cricket just existing to service for a bit of light entertainment during a dull summer? Or is it there to have a professional sports side that is ready willing and prepared to destroy all comers and be the best on the planet?
The differeing in perspective is fine, but only one viewpoint leads to breeding winners, and therein lies Englands major hold back and one which will never, ever change - not in my life time at least.

if we're just here to make up numbers and not really be all that competetive then i'd wonder whats the sodding point in even bothering to discuss form, performances and matches.
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Old 8th January 2015, 13:57   #22
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if we're just here to make up numbers and not really be all that competetive then i'd wonder whats the sodding point in even bothering to discuss form, performances and matches.
Very true. I admire the Australian and South African approach, wish we had it. Some of our players do, typically they're the one's who get picked on when they do something unsportsmanlike!
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Old 8th January 2015, 14:17   #23
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Its not true of all sports though, and werent we very professional and competitive in the Olympics (more so than the Aussies??) and isnt there a difference in how the viewing public perceive a contest than the players themselves
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Old 8th January 2015, 14:22   #24
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I respect your reasonings, and I suspect you're amongst many amongst English cricket following and set up who feel the same, but this only validates what i said about our whole cricketing culture is set up to 'take part' rather than ever being a dominant destructive force that all other nations bow to like Australia were for so long and will be again.
SA have been amongst the top for a long time too and the Windies before Oz, all 3 hugely arrogant nations who play for utter demolition of the opposition to suggest the opposition should get a bit of leniency would be laughed at. English cricket has always been upper middle class and as a result the mindset and culture is very much as you alude to, it's all just jolly nice to see a good contest, winning comes second.

That's a respectable and honourable viewpoint, but then I'd point out the fact sport is a genuine profession now, this isn't the 60's, there's millions of viewers, billions of pounds and thousands of employees involved around the world. It's easy as a spectator to say "it's just a sport" (how i detest that saying), but for people like me 'just a sport' has been my bread and butter for years, it's built my house paid my bills and fed my family, if results were poor i'd lose it all.
So we've got to ask is English cricket just existing to service for a bit of light entertainment during a dull summer? Or is it there to have a professional sports side that is ready willing and prepared to destroy all comers and be the best on the planet?
The differeing in perspective is fine, but only one viewpoint leads to breeding winners, and therein lies Englands major hold back and one which will never, ever change - not in my life time at least.

if we're just here to make up numbers and not really be all that competetive then i'd wonder whats the sodding point in even bothering to discuss form, performances and matches.
The details in your own signature would suggest England have been pretty competitive in recent years. In fact, the side's Test record over the past dozen years is superior to just about every period of similar length going back to WW2, in some cases comfortably so - despite there being arguably fewer 'easy' opponents in the modern game. In my time, the way English cricket views and prepares its national side has changed out of all recognition - certainly more radical and nationally focussed than English football. It may well be argued that more could be done, and things have been done badly, but I don't believe English cricket in the recent era has aimed to stand still.

Also, I'd disassociate the innermost feelings of we mere fans from those of the guys actually playing the sport at pro level - I cannot think that they pay the slightest attention to those of us who muse "Ooh, be nice if Australia won this Test, make a contest of it". Such magnanimity would only have a negative effect if it caused us to stop paying our Sky subs, and cease supporting our county sides and cheering England from the Compton or May Stands. I'd say in my particular case that it's actually the erratic nature of the England cricket team that makes it so appealing to watch - like a Pietersen innings, you're never quite sure what's coming next. I'm always more excited about an Ashes Summer if the urn is up for regaining, rather than retaining. Some years ago on holiday, I met some cricket fans from Melbourne who confessed they'd stopped going to the Boxing Day Test because it had become too damned predictable.

Anyway...cricket hasn't always been upper middle class - it was invented by my Wealden peasant ancestors !
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Old 13th January 2015, 18:45   #25
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Rogers on Robson
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cri...ampaign=14 90

I actually think he came back to Middlesex with a different technique to when he went into the England side, said Rogers. A few things crept into his game which he should have been helped with but he wasnt and thats interesting.
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Old 13th January 2015, 20:51   #26
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Another young player screwed up by Team England.
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Old 14th January 2015, 11:18   #27
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Another young player screwed up by Team England.
The regression of Ben Stokes under Peter Moores is perhaps the best example of this.
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Old 15th January 2015, 11:34   #28
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Another young player screwed up by Team England.
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The regression of Ben Stokes under Peter Moores is perhaps the best example of this.
Or perhaps he's just not as good as the earlier hype suggested.
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Old 2nd February 2015, 16:14   #29
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/...ry/826019.html

Yes, can we have Ottis Gibson back please if this comes to pass?
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Old 3rd February 2015, 12:14   #30
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Or perhaps he's just not as good as the earlier hype suggested.
Stokes is a highly talented player in all aspects. We have so many fantastic young players, it can't all be a case of 'they proved to not be up to it'.

Our coaching is abysmal, which is what happens when you select people like Ashley Giles as a coach when he has zero proper coaching credentials or capability.

A good coach is not just someone who does his certificates and used to play to a decent level.
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Old 3rd February 2015, 13:21   #31
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Stokes is a highly talented player in all aspects. We have so many fantastic young players, it can't all be a case of 'they proved to not be up to it'.

Our coaching is abysmal, which is what happens when you select people like Ashley Giles as a coach when he has zero proper coaching credentials or capability.

A good coach is not just someone who does his certificates and used to play to a decent level.
Don't know if Giles has coaching certificates, but he's got a decent managerial record. Took Warwickshire from the second division to win the County Championship and did similar in limited overs cricket.

Managing is different to coaching though, which was maybe your point.
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Old 4th February 2015, 14:19   #32
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http://www.theguardian.com/sport/201...P=share_btn_tw

His current contract is due to expire at the end of September. He had previously expressed a desire to extend that, but the onerous nature of touring with England, and the fact that he was unable to take some time off that had been promised previously, has changed his thinking. It is not my intention to carry on beyond September, he said. I will definitely be moving on then.
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Old 13th March 2015, 21:10   #33
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Dobell

'Saker, it is understood by ESPNcricinfo, will not travel back to the UK with the squad as he has a job interview in Australia. Suffice it to say, he might not receive an improved offer from the ECB in an attempt to keep him this time'.

He doesn't want to stay. The ECB are probably interviewing already for the job.
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Old 13th March 2015, 23:09   #34
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Dobell

'Saker, it is understood by ESPNcricinfo, will not travel back to the UK with the squad as he has a job interview in Australia.

He doesn't want to stay. The ECB are probably interviewing already for the job.
A bit of a left field suggestion but why not try and get Flintoff in as a bowling coach, maybe part time. He might not have any experience but getting a big character in could boost morale and his experience could help the younger players. Once a player is deemed good enough for international cricket they shouldn't have too much to improve on technically, so someone like Flintoff could be well suited to giving them small bits of advice.

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Old 14th March 2015, 01:28   #35
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Richard Johnson would surely be in the frame.
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Old 14th March 2015, 19:37   #36
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A bit of a left field suggestion but why not try and get Flintoff in as a bowling coach, maybe part time. He might not have any experience but getting a big character in could boost morale and his experience could help the younger players. Once a player is deemed good enough for international cricket they shouldn't have too much to improve on technically, so someone like Flintoff could be well suited to giving them small bits of advice.
Flintoff sold out to TV along time ago. He's currently in SA doing their version of I'm a Celebrity...
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Old 14th March 2015, 19:51   #37
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Richard Johnson would surely be in the frame.
So would the other bowler who also took 10 wickets in an innings in county cricket.
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Old 14th March 2015, 20:03   #38
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So would the other bowler who also took 10 wickets in an innings in county cricket.
Gibbo's been there before but I wouldn't mind seeing him back.
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Old 15th March 2015, 02:37   #39
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Gibbo's been there before but I wouldn't mind seeing him back.
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Saker was the only member of the coaching setup retained following the Ashes defeat but is now poised to return to his native Australia in a domestic role. Ottis Gibson, the bowling coach under Moores during his first spell as head coach in 2008, has been tipped to succeed him.



Looks like the new bowling coach will be in place before the Ashes starts instead of after it.
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Old 15th March 2015, 03:20   #40
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