![]() |
Welcome to the Cricket 24/7. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! |
|
Register | FAQ | Donate | Members List | Calendar | Casino | Articles | Terms of Use | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
![]() |
#181 |
World Class
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Yorkshire CCC & England, Wakefield Trinity RLFC, Leeds Carnegie RUFC
Posts: 7,249
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#182 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 27,445
|
It suggests that teams bat out a day to save a test at least as much as they did before T20.
__________________
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#183 |
Posting God
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,116
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#184 |
Self Confessed Mentalist
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 42
Posts: 43,314
|
It does more than suggest that, it comes pretty close to demonstrating it. Whether that's quite good enough on its own to disprove the thesis that T20 has markedly reduced teams' ability to bat out for draws is a little more questionable but beyond opinion, no evidence at all has been presented to support that thesis. There are fewer draws overall in tests now that there were, which could be adduced but that's probably for the same reason you mentioned earlier as being implicated in teams batting out a day plus for a draw more: that faster scoring rates give sides more time to try to force a win.
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#185 | |
Posting God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 10,258
|
Quote:
Remember that regardless of the nature of his speculations, D/L is assumed to be utterly correct unless ipso facto PROVED to be wrong. So make sure you do your homework super properly, Mr Grandmother! |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#186 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 27,445
|
Quote:
90s: 347 80s: 206
__________________
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#187 |
Posting God
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,116
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#188 |
Self Confessed Mentalist
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 42
Posts: 43,314
|
Fewer draws overall though, I think, suggesting that the apparently weaker seam bowling and flat tracks aren't winning out consistently. Of course that could also be framed as a failure of defensive technique.
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#189 | |
County Pro
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 958
|
Quote:
Though I don't know if there is a way to analyse it statistically. Teams with less skill across the board could well appear no different result wise to other eras, though since 2010 at least, tests are getting shorter. There are other factors that might make analysis difficult. Take Faff's save in Adelaide. An analysis wouldn't take into account that our strike bowler went down after 9 overs in the 1st innings with a lot of part timers then covering (Ponting even got to have a bowl lol). Siddle bowled himself into the ground to the extent he was ruled out of the next test, which featured a 2nd string attack led by Starc (and hence we got flogged). The only thing that seems apparent is that tail enders are better batsmen than they used to be. Starc could be one example of the influence of shorter formats. A great short form bowler with a mile of potential who doesn't have the skills to play test cricket (at least yet, IMO). Gets wickets against the run of play and can't apply pressure (his 5 fors usually cost a lot of runs "5-150" and so forth in losing causes). Though he wouldn't be the first odi bowler not to transfer well to tests, yet bowling seems poor across the board. The recent series against the Kiwis showed more examples. McCullum's innings achieved nothing other than setting a personal milestone. An ethos of ..."well we are probably going to lose, so lets have a lash". A more Dravid like innings, say 50 over a full day, would have helped his team more. Yet when faced with the possibility of chasing 5 an over on an exceptionally flat track to win a test match (waca), we saw no bravado at all, in favour of accepting the easy draw that was on offer. It seems to indicate a lack of will to fight when down. He might be a "one of" and a poor example, yet I think he is an exaggerated version of the problem. Guptill, Warner, Smith to mention a few and any number of other players all seem to have the same problem and it doesn't seem uncommon, they just have it to lesser extent. There doesn't seem the same willingness to "leave" or play patiently as there used to be, nor the techniques suited to this. Amid talk of the wickets being "flat" in Kiwiland also, I doubt that. I thought they were good test wickets, it was the bowling that was poor. The much hyped Kiwi attack was rubbish and in last test got most of their wickets via a second string bowler banging them in short. What is worse still is that our batsmen happily obliged. Though it's not possible to support opinions definitively this way nor is there enough room to list such examples. No doubt there are counter examples also, so it amounts to opinion either way. IMO standards not only in batting (with exception of the tail in general) but in general across the board in test cricket are slipping and I think will get a lot worse. The future for test cricket doesn't look so good. I remember reading an opinion from Holding some years ago predicting that test cricket as we know it, is unlikely to exist within a couple of decades largely because of t20. While no one's opinion should be treated as the final word, it has merit and he could well be right. I think the changes being proposed to test cricket are in many ways an acknowledgement that this is happening. It looks like they are trying to make test cricket more appealing to a different demographic (the t20 crowd) and whether it works out will be interesting to see. The Ashes will hopefully always be there (if they can fit them in). Sorry for the length of post lol.
__________________
carpe diem quam minimum credula postero Last edited by thedon : 10th May 2016 at 06:33. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#190 | ||
World Class
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Yorkshire CCC & England, Wakefield Trinity RLFC, Leeds Carnegie RUFC
Posts: 7,249
|
Quote:
Quote:
It takes no account, for example, of the occasions on which a team scored lowly in their first innings, started badly in their second and then took a cautious approach in that innings (not necessarily the 4th of the match). Any road up, it is not exclusively the outcome of a match that reveals an intention. It is often the approach - sometimes teams try very hard (not so much since T20), but fail to save a match. Are there any figures for these? Last edited by D/L : 10th May 2016 at 09:47. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#191 | |||||
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 27,445
|
Quote:
What you mean like batting for 559 balls (the 9th most in test history) to draw a test and win a series when 4 down in the second innings still about 200 runs behind and with two and a bit days left? Pity Dravid never managed anything as epic as that. Quote:
You presume wrong. The premise would be that batting for the last day of a test to save it would be examples of the skills and attitude that you claim are deficient. Quote:
Quote:
Mr Sanskritsimon - my apologies. I fear I have let you down and Mickey Arthur will now drop me from the Pakistan side ![]()
__________________
Quote:
|
|||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#192 |
World Class
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Yorkshire CCC & England, Wakefield Trinity RLFC, Leeds Carnegie RUFC
Posts: 7,249
|
That was a riposte straight from the playground. Some advice for you - when you find yourself in a hole as a result of your half-baked theories and ill thought through "evidence" - stop digging!
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#193 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 27,445
|
Quote:
You've ignored my substantive point btw.
__________________
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#194 | |
World Class
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Yorkshire CCC & England, Wakefield Trinity RLFC, Leeds Carnegie RUFC
Posts: 7,249
|
Quote:
Forgive me if I stay a few feet from the surface as you dig your way past the lithosphere. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#195 |
Posting God
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,664
|
You are yet to provide any statistical evidence, no matter how flimsy, to corroborate your claim, however.
__________________
WARNING Reading the above post may cause bouts of nausea. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#196 |
World Class
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Yorkshire CCC & England, Wakefield Trinity RLFC, Leeds Carnegie RUFC
Posts: 7,249
|
Forgive me. I baulked at the estimated amount of time it would take to do the far more extensive and complex analysis (than the one we have seen) that would be required and I thought that producing any analysis of players' intentions over several decades may not even have been possible.
I suppose I could have just provided some superficially supporting figures but people may have seen through this. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#197 | |
Posting God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 10,258
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#198 |
World Class
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Melbourne
Team(s): Australia
Posts: 5,756
|
Much written. Little achieved.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#199 | ||
World Class
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Yorkshire CCC & England, Wakefield Trinity RLFC, Leeds Carnegie RUFC
Posts: 7,249
|
Quote:
Quote:
Judging by the sanctimonious claptrap you post, I doubt you even know what a joke (in the real sense) is. It's certainly amusing, though, that some seem to think there can be no influence from T20 on the way test cricket is played these days. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#200 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 27,445
|
Quote:
You're going very Sir Virgs.
__________________
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|