Bowlers and Bowling

[1000yardstare]

Cricinfo Hawkeye bowling speeds

Finn 85.8-96.2
Broad 84.6-91.2
Woakes 84.5-92.1
Anderson 81.4-90.8

Riaz 87.8-97.5
Khan 83.8-91.1
Amir 84.1-87.3

If either Finn or Riaz bowled a ball at that speed I would have thought that the commentators would have noticed and said something.

I won't bother taking Hawkeye seriously any more.

Anderson says he is still fit, hungry and enjoying the game.
The ambition to play one more Ashes in England is still strong. It is two years away and I know a lot can happen in that time. A player can get a career ending injury at any moment or a lack of form can cost them their place so I know I have to take it step by step, summer by summer.

I have had a few injuries recently. I can’t shy away from that. I was lucky to go almost ten years without any fitness problems and they have come in a cluster. I understand that when a player reaches his mid-thirties, and has a few injuries, people start to question how long he can last.

But I can say going into this Test that I don’t feel as if I am too old. I still feel in good nick. I still feel fit and hungry to play and I am enjoying the game. As long as that carries on and I am bowling well then the doubts will go away.

It feels strange at the moment because I feel like I have something to prove. People touch on my age and think I’m reaching the end so I want to prove I deserve a place in the side by performing well. If I can do that this summer then it will stand me in good stead for Australia.

I want to go to Australia this winter. It is an amazing tour. There is nothing quite like an Ashes trip Down Under. I have experienced both winning and losing in Australia and I feel like I have unfinished business.

But I have never looked too far ahead. It can be a dangerous thing if you start thinking about the winter. It takes the focus away from what you are trying to achieve in the here and now which is keeping myself in good shape and fit.

When I pulled a muscle in my groin against Yorkshire a few weeks ago I feared I would not be fit for this match. At first I probably over-reacted by collapsing in a heap at the crease. I had never pulled a muscle before like that and it was a shock. Afterwards I felt a little bit stupid having made a meal of it but the physio originally said the injury could take up to six weeks to heal which would have put this Test in doubt. Luckily I managed to recover well, worked really hard to get where I am today and ended up coming back a game earlier for Lancashire than expected.

I feel good now. I am still working on my shoulder to make sure that does not come back again.

We never really had a definitive diagnosis. I had a lot of scans on it and saw specialists but shoulders are complicated joints and it can be hard to pinpoint exactly what is going wrong. We have a fair idea but more importantly I know how to manage it and what works for it in the gym. As long as I am bowling without pain then I am fine, it is just a case of looking after it by being sensible. I had a good long bowl on Tuesday, but did nothing on Wednesday so it is just a case of trying to make sure I do not overwork it. It has coped with everything I have thrown at it this summer. I bowled 32 overs in an innings last week on a flat pitch at Edgbaston for Lancashire and it was fine.

We now have seven Tests in just over eight weeks and it will be a big ask for any bowler, regardless of their age and fitness, to play in every match. We will have to play it by ear. We are monitored all the time. We wear GPS sensors even in the nets so if our workloads are too high we will sit out a match. It is just about being sensible.


Joe Root has been his usual self this week. You cannot treat someone differently just because they have become captain. We still took the mickey out of Alastair Cook when he was in charge. You have to treat them first and foremost as a team-mate. Rooty is a character in the dressing room and you can’t lose that. The dressing room needs Joe to be himself.

As senior players Cook, Stuart Broad and myself feel a responsibility to try and help him settle in to the job because it is not going to be easy. Joe has not got a huge amount of captaincy experience so we have a role to play helping him on and off field. We can help with field settings and ensure there is the right atmosphere around the group. The easier we can make life for him the better. It will only be as the series goes on that we will see him come into his own and find out what he is actually like as a captain.

[sanskritsimon]

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare

... I won't bother taking Hawkeye seriously any more.

It's interesting that this speed-measuring system that is quite obviously inaccurate has the same name as the ball-tracking system that everyone swears by when it's used as part of the UDRS ...

[geoff_boycotts_grandmother]

Really? I'd be more inclined to trust Hawkeye over Beefy or Warne.

[Fatslogger]

If those really fast balls were massive outliers from the others then I'd be sceptical but speed tracking tech is pretty good. I'd be surprised were it a long way out. Wonder how and how often they calibrate it.

[Ali TT]

Is this speed tracking tech different to the one which pops up on the telly after each delivery? Sans says it has the same name as hawkeye as if it's a coincidence, but presumably it is actually the hawkeye ball tracker tech being used to predict speeds. In which case, it might well come up with different values to the speed gun.

[D/L]

Speed is distance divided by time. Time is easy but I've often wondered what distance they use to calculate the speed they tell us the bowler is operating at.

Presumably, to calculate the maximum speed at which the ball travelled in its flight, they use the distance the ball has travelled from the bowler's hand to the point at which air resistance starts to make it decelerate.

Would this distance be a constant for all speeds and trajectories, though? If not, I wonder how they adjust for it.

All in all, I'm rather sceptical about some of the figures we see on the TV.

Not as sceptical as I am of Botham's understanding of the principles involved, though. During the last test, he expressed surprise at some of the speeds in the context of the firmness of the pitch.

[Chin Music]

I always thought that they gave the speed pretty much on the moment of release. Even a 90 mph release is apparently about 70mph before reaching the batsman.

[ConfusedMale]

Originally Posted by Chin Music

I always thought that they gave the speed pretty much on the moment of release. Even a 90 mph release is apparently about 70mph before reaching the batsman.

I too think is the case because I remember seeing the split of speeds when it leaves the bowler, at the time of pitching and when it hits the bat and there was a considerable difference in pace. That also makes one wonder why more bowlers aren't using the yorkers any longer.

[Ali TT]

Originally Posted by ConfusedMale

I too think is the case because I remember seeing the split of speeds when it leaves the bowler, at the time of pitching and when it hits the bat and there was a considerable difference in pace. That also makes one wonder why more bowlers aren't using the yorkers any longer.

To an extent, but any good test batsman should be able to play 90mph yorkers if they are expecting it, so it's better as a surprise delivery. A ball pitching on a good length will always be the primary wicket taker in tests because the batsman has to factor in more variables in swing, seam and bounce.

[ConfusedMale]

Originally Posted by Ali TT

To an extent, but any good test batsman should be able to play 90mph yorkers if they are expecting it, so it's better as a surprise delivery. A ball pitching on a good length will always be the primary wicket taker in tests because the batsman has to factor in more variables in swing, seam and bounce.

These days, even when batsmen expect it, we see too little of it, I feel.

[JS180]

I didn't want to start a new thread but I've always been curious, how do the ground staff make a pitch that's flat but sluggish compared to one that is flat but fast? I'm aware that leaving grass on there in theory makes it more seamer friendly but what do subcontinent groundsmen do to create turning pitches?

[geoff_boycotts_grandmother]

Originally Posted by JS180

I didn't want to start a new thread but I've always been curious, how do the ground staff make a pitch that's flat but sluggish compared to one that is flat but fast? I'm aware that leaving grass on there in theory makes it more seamer friendly but what do subcontinent groundsmen do to create turning pitches?

Turn is easier to answer: you want a dry pitch that cracks and has rough for the ball to grip and turn. You therefore water it less, cut the grass more/shorter, re-use an old pitch etc.

Sluggish, I think depends a little on the loam but also on things like how often you roll it. Too much rolling it can deaden it. You want the grass cut short, but only recently.

[1000yardstare]

Update on how many overs bowled this year in all forms of the game.

Ball 568.3
Woakes 549.1
Finn 525.1
Broad 504.4
Anderson 481.2
Stokes 423.0
Jordan 419.3
Plunkett 405.4
Willey 358.2
Wood 192.0

Still enough in the tank for the Bangladesh and India series. In a busy year they can expect to have 700-800 overs in all forms. After India there aren't any Tests until the end of June.

Most overs bowled in a series

Anderson 213.1
Broad 185.5
Woakes 148.3
Wood 118.4
Stokes 116.5
Finn 108.1

4 bowlers compared to 5

4 bowlers
58 Tests (2268.3-545-6755-241) - 28.02 econ 2.97 s/r 56.4 Anderson
45 Tests (1646.2-362-4839-169) - 28.63 econ 2.93 s/r 57.3 Broad

39.7 overs per Test
36.5 overs per Test

11 5fers - every 5.2 Tests
8 5fers - every 5.6 Tests

5 bowlers
64 Tests (2204.5-552-6555-226) - 29.00 econ 2.97 s/r 58.5 Anderson
57 Tests (1853.4-425-5664-199) - 28.46 econ 3.05 s/r 55.8 Broad

34.4 overs per Test
32.5 overs per Test

10 5fers - every 6.4 Tests
7 5fers - every 8.1 Tests

There is hardly any difference between bowling in a 4/5 man attack. Broad has a better strike rate but that c5ould be to a poor start in his early career. There is a difference in 5fers.

Career
Swann every 3.5 Tests
Anderson every 5.80 Tests
Broad every 6.80 Tests

The overs bowled is only 4/5 overs per Test more with 4 bowlers.

[billyguntheballs]

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare

Cricinfo Hawkeye bowling speeds

Finn 85.8-96.2
Broad 84.6-91.2
Woakes 84.5-92.1
Anderson 81.4-90.8

Riaz 87.8-97.5
Khan 83.8-91.1
Amir 84.1-87.3

If either Finn or Riaz bowled a ball at that speed I would have thought that the commentators would have noticed and said something.

I won't bother taking Hawkeye seriously any more.

The Sky commentators missed quite a few quick deliveries, or to better put it, were too busy talking rubbish to actually mention it. I saw Riaz hit around 94 or 95 at one stage and I think it was Beefy who was talking about something entirely irrelevant. It wasn't even a cricketing discussion

[Rebelstar]

Originally Posted by listentome

The Sky commentators missed quite a few quick deliveries, or to better put it, were too busy talking rubbish to actually mention it. I saw Riaz hit around 94 or 95 at one stage and I think it was Beefy who was talking about something entirely irrelevant. It wasn't even a cricketing discussion

If I get in the car and put on TMS I can find myself listening for 5-10 minutes or longer before any of them see fit to mention the score.

Can be just a spell of things like "Trotter bowls and Boycie pats it back to the bowler" whilst they continue some discussion, interesting or not.

[1000yardstare]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...mitchell-starc

Of all the fast bowlers in Engand I would say Wood is the fastest. Faster than Plunkett or Mills.

[sanskritsimon]

Originally Posted by Rebelstar

If I get in the car and put on TMS I can find myself listening for 5-10 minutes or longer before any of them see fit to mention the score. ...

I guess they don't know when you've just tuned in, and it feels a bit daft to repeat the score again and again. I know what you mean though, and I too find it annoying, though to be fair it is a lot less annoying since the advent of the ubiquitous internet, which can generally furnish the score but not the charming chat.

[Fatslogger]

Originally Posted by sanskritsimon

I guess they don't know when you've just tuned in, and it feels a bit daft to repeat the score again and again. I know what you mean though, and I too find it annoying, though to be fair it is a lot less annoying since the advent of the ubiquitous internet, which can generally furnish the score but not the charming chat.

Yes, similarly, it's quite irritating to find them endlessly repeating the score when you already know it and you'd actually like some narrative around what just happened. The score is very easy to find outside of TMS.

[blackeyedangles]

Should always be mentioned after a boundary or a wicket. It's true that you can usually find it online, but that's no good if I'm listening on iPlayer to a match that's already happened...

[1000yardstare]

Last 4 overs 20/20

53.0-0-533-21 - Dernbach (10.05)
45.4-0-416-20 - Broad (econ 9.11)
41.4-0-395-19 - Jordan (9.48)
26.3-0-289-11 - Bresnan (10.90)
24.4-0-198-12 - Sidebottom (8.02)
19.3-0-215-5 - Willey (11.02)
16.2-1-137-5 - Anderson (8.38)
14.0-0-113-5 - Finn (8.07)
12.4-1-101-6 - Bopara (7.97)
10.0-0-74-4 - Swann (7.40)
10.0-0-72-3 - Flintoff (7.20)
9.0-0-72-5 - Curran (8.00)
8.0-0-70-2 - Stokes (8.75)
6.3-0-49-3 - Plunkett (7.53)
6.0-0-36-2 - Rashid (6.00)
6.0-0-59-1 - Wright (9.83)
5.2-0-58-5 - Woakes (10.88)
5.1-0-57-2 - Topley (11.04)
5.0-0-49-2 - Collingwood (9.80)
4.0-0-29-3 - Mills (7.25)
4.0-0-33-2 - Gurney (8.25)
4.0-0-25-3 - Mahmood (6.25)
4.0-0-29-0 - Yardy (7.25)
4.0-0-55-2 - Shahzad (14.66)
3.3-0-36-3 - Wood (10.28)
2.5-0-48-0 - Schofield (16.96)
2.2-0-30-1 - Ali (12.87)
2.0-0-37-0 - Ball (18.50)
2.0-0-15-2 - Khan (7.50)
2.0-0-30-0 - Meaker (15.00)
1.5-0-24-0 - Tredwell (13.11)
1.0-0-15-1 - Malan (15.00)
1.0-0-6-2 - Maddy (6.00)
1.0-0-10-0 - Pietersen (10.00)
1.0-0-11-1 - Tremlett (11.00)
1.0-0-13-0 - Lewis (13.00)
1.0-0-14-0 - Patel (14.00)
1.0-0-23-0 - Briggs (23.00)
0.5-0-10-0 - Gough
0.3-0-0-1 - Harmison

ODIs

154.2-2-1109-61 - Anderson (7.18)
101.2-1-737-37 - Broad (7.27)
100.3-1-722-32 - Bresnan (7.18)
93.1-2-551-50 - Flintoff (5.91)
88.3-2-727-33 - Woakes (8.21)
55.4-2-386-18 - Gough (6.93)
49.1-0-411-26 - Finn (8.36)
48.2-2-355-24 - Plunkett (7.34)
40.1-1-258-13 - Collingwood (6.42)
36.3-0-301-14 - Stokes (8.24)
33.4-0-256-15 - Rashid (7.60)
32.4-2-278-12 - Dernbach (8.51)
30.1-0-214-6 - Wood (7.09)
28.5-0-193-10 - Harmison (6.69)
27.5-0-175-12 - Sidebottom (6.28)
27.2-0-153-11 - Swann (5.59)
24.3-0-192-12 - Willey (7.83)
23.3-0-171-11 - Mahmood (7.27)
23.2-0-222-14 - Jordan (9.51)
20.5-0-162-2 - Ball (7.77)
18.0-3-70-4 - Giles (3.88)
16.5-0-108-5 - Ali (6.41)
15.4-3-68-7 - Tredwell (4.34)
13.4-0-119-4 - Tremlett (8.71)
13.3-0-75-4 - Bopara (5.55)
13.1-0-144-9 - Kabir Ali (10.94)
12.5-0-101-3 - T Curran (7.87)
12.3-0-118-7 - Gurney (9.44)
12.2-1-79-4 - Wharf (6.40)
11.1-0-95-0 – Clarke (8.63)
10-0-64-3 - Panesar (6.40)
9.0-0-40-6 - Caddick (4.44)
8.1-0-73-4 - Patel (8.94)
8-0-31-3 - Dalrymple (3.87)
7.1-0-57-2 - Topley (7.96)
6.5-0-54-0 - Hoggard (7.90)
6.0-1-55-3 - Wright (9.16)
6.0-0-34-3 - Vaughan (5.66)
6.0-0-46-3 - Shahzad (7.66)
5.2-0-49-1 - Lewis (9.19)
5.1-0-20-4 - Rankin (3.87)
5.0-0-50-0 - Root (10.00)
5.0-0-23-0 - Irani (4.60)
4-0-18-0 - Blackwell (4.50)
3.3-0-20-0 - Solanki (5.71)
3.0-1-14-3 - Shah (4.66)
3.0-0-15-1 - Yardy (5.00)
3-0-21-0 - Pietersen (7.00)
3-0-35-0 - Meaker (11.66)
3-0-37-0 - White (12.33)
2.2-0-12-0 - Batty (5.15)
2.1-0-10-2 - Kirtley (4.62)
2.0-0-9-1 - McGrath (4.50)
2.0-0-8-2 - Parry (4.00)
2.0-0-12-1 - Jones (6.00)
2-0-14-0 - Mascarenhas (7.00)
2-0-23-0 - Loudon (11.50)
1.4-0-5-2 - Bell (3.01)
1-0-3-0 - Strauss (3.00)
1.0-0-7-0 - Trescothick (7.00)
1.0-0-13-0 – Onions (13.00)
0.3-0-5-0 - Trott (10.00)