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Old 30th January 2010, 00:40   #81
DanielVettoriSpin
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What exactly was so bad about Greatbatch's tenure at Warwickshire? I want names, I want dates... Any info appreciated.
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Old 30th January 2010, 10:06   #82
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He was essentially over promoted. He'd been coaching at a school when the academy job became available at Warwickshire. He did that for 6 months, then got the Director of Cricket job in controversial circumstances - Warwickshire set up a commitee of 4 without working out that this meant there could be a tied vote. There was a tied vote, Tim Munton, as Chairman of the Cricket Commitee, used to his casting vote to appoint Andy Moles - only to be told he didn't have a casting vote as Chairman. The Club Chairman - an accountant not a cricket man - then came back from holiday and, presumably influenced by Amiss, gave Greatbatch the job. Moles would have been far more popular and had lined up Brett Lee and one other big name to join - so the fans were against Mark from day one.

Quite right for the wrong reasons, as it turned out.

He was pretty hopeless from the start. He should have gone at the end of his first season (2006) when Alex Loudon led a delegation of players who wanted to report him to the PCA for his bullying style of management. Instead the club kept him, sent him on a variety of management courses - but he didn't change. Indeed he got worse during his second season as the pressure of impending relegation made him crabbier and crabbier, particularly with the local press with whom he had virtually no relationship at the end. When he left we had suffered double relegation as well as the long term damage of losing good players like Mark Wagh, Moeen Ali and Alex Loudon - whose departures were all directly linked to the antics of this man.

Specific critisisms would be:

1. He couldn't judge a player. For example, he always thought Ian Westwood was better than Mark Wagh. He made no effort at all to keep Graham Wagg.

2. He was a bully. He's a big bloke, Mark Greatbatch, and an intimidating presence. I can remember in his first season a young player, since released, telling me how much he disliked playing in the first team under Batch because the environment was so stressed.

3. He bore grudges. There was an incident at Scarborough in 2006 when he got the team together to ask what was wrong. Nick Knight was meant to say something but leapt straight onto that fence he carries around with him to this day - so Dougie Brown stepped in and said "Batch, the big problem is you". Disgracefully, Brown only ever played two more games for Warwickshire and I dont think Batch talks to him even now - 4 years later - even though Dougie is married to his sister in law.

4. He had no man management skills. Moeen Ali, a real talent with the bat, made his debut as an emergency off spinner at Trent Bridge, scored a beautiful 50, but was immediately dropped because he hadn't taken any wickets (he's not a bowler anyway). Batch told him not to worry as he could see him as "a first team regular within 5 years". Possibly not what a young man already grumbling about not being in the first team wanted to hear? A month later he signed for Worcs.

5. He simply couldn't deal with pressure. The classic example was our last game of 2007 at Old Trafford where we had to win to stay up. Before play he gathered the team for a motivational speech.

And burst into tears.

Above all, he was simply a bad coach. I think it would be hard to argue that a single Warwickshire player improved in Batch's two years. Indeed many regressed.

I wish you luck with him. Hopefully what happened at Warwickshire was down to the stress of him being in a job he really wasn't qualified for at that stage.

Last edited by Kim : 30th January 2010 at 10:25.
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Old 30th January 2010, 11:15   #83
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Thanks for that Kim. Its good to know this information, I don't hear enough about County Cricket these days.
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Old 30th January 2010, 11:25   #84
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You might finf George Dobells answer to my first question here interesting as well:

http://www.bearsfans.org/showthread.php?tid=352
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Old 30th January 2010, 12:56   #85
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He was essentially over promoted. He'd been coaching at a school when the academy job became available at Warwickshire. He did that for 6 months, then got the Director of Cricket job in controversial circumstances - Warwickshire set up a commitee of 4 without working out that this meant there could be a tied vote. There was a tied vote, Tim Munton, as Chairman of the Cricket Commitee, used to his casting vote to appoint Andy Moles - only to be told he didn't have a casting vote as Chairman. The Club Chairman - an accountant not a cricket man - then came back from holiday and, presumably influenced by Amiss, gave Greatbatch the job. Moles would have been far more popular and had lined up Brett Lee and one other big name to join - so the fans were against Mark from day one.

Quite right for the wrong reasons, as it turned out.

He was pretty hopeless from the start. He should have gone at the end of his first season (2006) when Alex Loudon led a delegation of players who wanted to report him to the PCA for his bullying style of management. Instead the club kept him, sent him on a variety of management courses - but he didn't change. Indeed he got worse during his second season as the pressure of impending relegation made him crabbier and crabbier, particularly with the local press with whom he had virtually no relationship at the end. When he left we had suffered double relegation as well as the long term damage of losing good players like Mark Wagh, Moeen Ali and Alex Loudon - whose departures were all directly linked to the antics of this man.

Specific critisisms would be:

1. He couldn't judge a player. For example, he always thought Ian Westwood was better than Mark Wagh. He made no effort at all to keep Graham Wagg.

2. He was a bully. He's a big bloke, Mark Greatbatch, and an intimidating presence. I can remember in his first season a young player, since released, telling me how much he disliked playing in the first team under Batch because the environment was so stressed.

3. He bore grudges. There was an incident at Scarborough in 2006 when he got the team together to ask what was wrong. Nick Knight was meant to say something but leapt straight onto that fence he carries around with him to this day - so Dougie Brown stepped in and said "Batch, the big problem is you". Disgracefully, Brown only ever played two more games for Warwickshire and I dont think Batch talks to him even now - 4 years later - even though Dougie is married to his sister in law.

4. He had no man management skills. Moeen Ali, a real talent with the bat, made his debut as an emergency off spinner at Trent Bridge, scored a beautiful 50, but was immediately dropped because he hadn't taken any wickets (he's not a bowler anyway). Batch told him not to worry as he could see him as "a first team regular within 5 years". Possibly not what a young man already grumbling about not being in the first team wanted to hear? A month later he signed for Worcs.

5. He simply couldn't deal with pressure. The classic example was our last game of 2007 at Old Trafford where we had to win to stay up. Before play he gathered the team for a motivational speech.

And burst into tears.

Above all, he was simply a bad coach. I think it would be hard to argue that a single Warwickshire player improved in Batch's two years. Indeed many regressed.

I wish you luck with him. Hopefully what happened at Warwickshire was down to the stress of him being in a job he really wasn't qualified for at that stage.
You liked him then?
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Old 30th January 2010, 13:00   #86
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Onky because we were so similar in many ways.
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Old 30th January 2010, 13:48   #87
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Onky because we were so similar in many ways.
Quality reply.

Perhaps the spelling left a bit to be desired.
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Last edited by Fatslogger : 30th January 2010 at 15:02.
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Old 30th January 2010, 15:55   #88
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You might finf George Dobells answer to my first question here interesting as well:

http://www.bearsfans.org/showthread.php?tid=352
Why do you call yourself a Worcester fan?
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Old 30th January 2010, 16:06   #89
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Its one of the moderators on there messing with me. He's always doing it.

And I wasnt born on the 12th April 1910 either.
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Old 30th January 2010, 16:24   #90
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http://www.testmatchextra.com/Blogs....d-7a789e37350b
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Old 31st January 2010, 00:27   #91
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Its one of the moderators on there messing with me. He's always doing it.

And I wasnt born on the 12th April 1910 either.
You weren't?

If only our mods had senses of humour.
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Old 31st January 2010, 12:10   #92
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"In Test cricket you need to take 20 wickets and you also need to score a decent amount of runs." - Batch yesterday.

He's clearly still got it.
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Old 31st January 2010, 13:03   #93
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"In Test cricket you need to take 20 wickets and you also need to score a decent amount of runs." - Batch yesterday.

He's clearly still got it.
That's insight of the most clear eyed incisiveness, isn't it?
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Old 31st January 2010, 13:05   #94
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Was actually rumoured before he defected to the ICL, he was planning on giving up test cricket then due to his injury problems.
Defected is a bit harsh.

My understanding is that he checked with the NZ board first, who said playing for the ICL would be fine when not on international duty and would not affect his selection for the national side. He duly signed, only for the ICC under pressure from the BCCI to subsequently ban all ICL players and for the NZ board to go back on their previous position.

Having signed the contract, he correctly felt that personal integrity demanded he fulfilled it. In the whole shennanigans with the IPL and the ICL, IMHO he comes out with a lot more honour than the ICC, BCCI or any of the national boards - or many of the players for that matter.
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Old 1st February 2010, 18:41   #95
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Its one of the moderators on there messing with me. He's always doing it.

And I wasnt born on the 12th April 1910 either.
Pity. I thought you might have seen Bradman play in the 30's and 40's.
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Old 1st February 2010, 18:48   #96
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Pity. I thought you might have seen Bradman play in the 30's and 40's.
If only he'd got Bradman signed souvenirs back then!

Sorry Kim, I really couldn't help it, perhaps it stops me having a moan about Mido.....................
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Old 1st February 2010, 18:55   #97
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If only he'd got Bradman signed souvenirs back then!
Sorry Kim, I really couldn't help it, perhaps it stops me having a moan about Mido.....................



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Old 1st February 2010, 19:12   #98
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Defected is a bit harsh.

My understanding is that he checked with the NZ board first, who said playing for the ICL would be fine when not on international duty and would not affect his selection for the national side. He duly signed, only for the ICC under pressure from the BCCI to subsequently ban all ICL players and for the NZ board to go back on their previous position.

Having signed the contract, he correctly felt that personal integrity demanded he fulfilled it. In the whole shennanigans with the IPL and the ICL, IMHO he comes out with a lot more honour than the ICC, BCCI or any of the national boards - or many of the players for that matter.
He also said that the money was something that he had to consider when the Nz CEO offered him a way out because of his history of injuries he had to make sure he would be providing some financial stability for him and his family.
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Old 8th February 2010, 21:50   #99
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Seeing as this has been adopted as the NZ thread, I've changed the title.

I'll also contribute this interesting read about Jesse Ryder
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Old 8th February 2010, 23:28   #100
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Jesse Ryder man of the people.
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