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Old 4th November 2015, 18:19   #2241
Ali TT
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I'm not happy to see Bell failing so often. In full flow he's excellent viewing but it doesn't happen often enough and he's been given more than enough opportunities to get that form back.

England screwed up earlier in the year by recalling Trott to open in the Windies instead of Adam Lyth and by not playing Rashid in place of Tredwell. In this tour they've screwed up the best chance of getting Hales bedded in as an opener (in opener friendly conditions) and should have played Taylor ahead of Bell.

I actually don't believe that this is the end for Bell, I think it should be but don't expect the selectors to be quite so brave as to throw him out now. They will, as MPV suggested, be afraid of having a green top order in ZA.
Agree with this. Bell's high points hinted at a much greater potential than what he has ended up achieving. I think fundamentally just not mentally strong enough to cut it across a career. I wonder if he's another senior player prolonged beyond their use by date to support Cook?

At his best exquisite but all too often excruciatingly frustrating.
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Old 4th November 2015, 18:39   #2242
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At his best exquisite but all too often excruciatingly frustrating.
A line that at one time might have been written about the chap who passed yesterday (until he was given a late opportunity to truly fulfil his promise and grasped it).
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Old 4th November 2015, 18:54   #2243
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I can't speak for other members here but any limited over exaggerated criticism of Bell from myself was/is purely due to the poster who fervently supports him in such a passionate & thus entertaining manner.
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Old 4th November 2015, 18:55   #2244
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Bell frustrates because we think he should have been a great player - he was in the end merely a very good one.
Time to move on, or IMO back to Ballance.
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Old 4th November 2015, 18:56   #2245
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And the criticism is pretty justified seeing that in the last 2 years he's averaged under 30. Under 30. You have to say those calling it got it right didn't they?

Can you name an England batsman who's averaged under 30 over a 2 year span who hasn't been heavily criticised?
Can't believe you're asking this.

Kevin Peter Pietersen. ODIs. Between making a century in November 2008 to making his next one in February Jan 2012 he played 36 innings @ 24.88 with a hs of 78, one of only3 fifties he made in that period. There was no actual criticism, just the usual comment that he was such a great player that a big score was just around the corner.

This has been mentioned on other threads dozens of times but it cuts no ice with you KP fans because he's untouchable.



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So the last type of player who should be entrusted with opening the batting in South Africa.
Well it's not me suggesting he should open the batting. If this is the end of Bell's England career, so be it.
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Old 4th November 2015, 18:59   #2246
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Bell frustrates because we think he should have been a great player - he was in the end merely a very good one.
Time to move on, or IMO back to Ballance.
I think so.
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Old 4th November 2015, 19:01   #2247
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Can't believe you're asking this.

Kevin Peter Pietersen. ODIs. Between making a century in November 2008 to making his next one in February Jan 2012 he played 36 innings @ 24.88 with a hs of 78, one of only3 fifties he made in that period. There was no actual criticism, just the usual comment that he was such a great player that a big score was just around the corner.

This has been mentioned on other threads dozens of times but it cuts no ice with you KP fans because he's untouchable.
Er, that's ODI cricket. We're talking test cricket here.
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 4th November 2015, 19:01   #2248
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IMO back to Ballance.
Are his feet still stuck in cement?
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Old 4th November 2015, 19:01   #2249
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Well it's not me suggesting he should open the batting. If this is the end of Bell's England career, so be it.
Do you think this should be the end of his career?
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 4th November 2015, 19:14   #2250
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Do you think this should be the end of his career?
I don't want it to be the end of his career but if he's lost his zip and on a downward spiral it's better for him to go than struggle on.
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Old 4th November 2015, 19:21   #2251
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If this is the end for Bell, which it very probably is, then maybe we can reflect on a career that contained a lot more highs than are generally acknowledged on this board.
He's played 118 test matches, there have indeed been highs but simply not enough. Btw of players with 5000 runs, only Mark Boucher and Kapil Dev have played more tests than Bell for fewer runs. He is comfortably the worst achieving player to have had such a long career.
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Old 4th November 2015, 19:34   #2252
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He's played 118 test matches, there have indeed been highs but simply not enough. Btw of players with 5000 runs, only Mark Boucher and Kapil Dev have played more tests than Bell for fewer runs. He is comfortably the worst achieving player to have had such a long career.
And Kapil played 21 fewer innings.

However, Bell's career record isn't too dissimilar to that of Mark Waugh, who played 10 more Tests, scored 302 more runs and has an average of roughly 0.8 lower. Bell also has two more hundreds. Is Waugh generally held to be a poor achiever?
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Old 4th November 2015, 19:43   #2253
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And Kapil played 21 fewer innings.

However, Bell's career record isn't too dissimilar to that of Mark Waugh, who played 10 more Tests, scored 302 more runs and has an average of roughly 0.8 lower. Bell also has two more hundreds. Is Waugh generally held to be a poor achiever?
Mark Waugh was definitely an underachiever. You only have to look at his less talented brother to see that.
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 4th November 2015, 19:48   #2254
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I can't speak for other members here but any limited over exaggerated criticism of Bell from myself was/is purely due to the poster who fervently supports him in such a passionate & thus entertaining manner.
I haven't a clue about the type of behaviour that you might have engaged in having never done any such type of thing myself.
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Old 4th November 2015, 19:51   #2255
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Mark Waugh was definitely an underachiever. You only have to look at his less talented brother to see that.
And yet, he'd make a lot of fans' 'Must See' elevens.
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Old 4th November 2015, 19:53   #2256
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Bell's career can be summed up as brilliant at 5 or 6, poor at 3 or 4. Can't knock him for scoring the runs he has, and he has done it stylishly, but one does wonder whether he quite achieved what he should.
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Old 4th November 2015, 20:22   #2257
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Bell's career can be summed up as brilliant at 5 or 6, poor at 3 or 4. Can't knock him for scoring the runs he has, and he has done it stylishly, but one does wonder whether he quite achieved what he should.
Ali suggested earlier that there are questions about Bell's mental strength. Given that mental toughness is these days thought to be as important (possibly more so) as innate ability and that, in the words of Keith Deller, "you can't teach bottle", maybe we should be taking a different look at Bell. That to have been naturally short on the essential requirement of mental toughness and yet still have played for a decade at the highest level with a decent set of figures and achievements suggests that he's actually overachieved. Because many other players with supposed heavenly ability have also been found wanting upstairs and withered away quite rapidly.
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Old 4th November 2015, 20:26   #2258
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And yet, he'd make a lot of fans' 'Must See' elevens.
Sure, his batting was very easy on the eye and could take a game away from a team in a session in a way that Bell never really could. Bell was invariably the supporting act rather than the star.
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 4th November 2015, 20:29   #2259
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And Kapil played 21 fewer innings.

However, Bell's career record isn't too dissimilar to that of Mark Waugh, who played 10 more Tests, scored 302 more runs and has an average of roughly 0.8 lower. Bell also has two more hundreds. Is Waugh generally held to be a poor achiever?
True although I fancy batting is a little easier now than in the 80s and 90s when Waugh played. Remember Bell has a big inflation of his average thanks to piling on the runs v Bangladesh.

The one player I would compare Bell too might be a couple of bowlers - Harmison and Johnson. Exceptionally good at their best but too often invisible when times tougher.
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Old 4th November 2015, 20:33   #2260
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True although I fancy batting is a little easier now than in the 80s and 90s when Waugh played. Remember Bell has a big inflation of his average thanks to piling on the runs v Bangladesh.

The one player I would compare Bell too might be a couple of bowlers - Harmison and Johnson. Exceptionally good at their best but too often invisible when times tougher.
Nah, they both spearheaded their sides attacks. Bell was more Siddle than Johnson.
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