Cricket 24/7  

Welcome to the Cricket 24/7.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. There are also more forums available to members, such as the Lounge - where members chat about just about anything under the sun except cricket!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   Cricket 24/7 > Cricket Discussion Forums > England
Register FAQDonate Members List Calendar Casino Articles Terms of Use Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 23rd November 2015, 16:27   #141
Summer of '77
World Class
 
Summer of '77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London-Essex
Team(s): Kent, Essex
Posts: 7,159
I've just learned that my mate's father, George Fox, was made Man of The Series in England's successful defence of the Over-70s Ashes. He averaged 97 for the three match series, and is an opening bat. Get him to Africa !
Summer of '77 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2015, 16:37   #142
D/L
World Class
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Yorkshire CCC & England, Wakefield Trinity RLFC, Leeds Carnegie RUFC
Posts: 6,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRC67 View Post
...In 20/20 he takes the premeditated shot out of the equation because it must be impossible to know roughly where the ball will pitch.
I think you'll find that most bowlers, intentionally or not, pitch the ball on different parts of the wicket and not just in T20.

A batsman knowing roughly where all deliveries will pitch would have to be superhuman.
D/L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2015, 17:11   #143
Ali TT
Posting God
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by D/L View Post
I think you'll find that most bowlers, intentionally or not, pitch the ball on different parts of the wicket and not just in T20.

A batsman knowing roughly where all deliveries will pitch would have to be superhuman.
Or Glenn McGrath
__________________
WARNING
Reading the above post may cause bouts of nausea.
Ali TT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2015, 18:43   #144
JRC67
International Material
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by D/L View Post
I think you'll find that most bowlers, intentionally or not, pitch the ball on different parts of the wicket and not just in T20.

A batsman knowing roughly where all deliveries will pitch would have to be superhuman.
I have no axe to grind with Rashid but if if is deliberately constantly bowling longhops and half volleys then he probably needs to have a serious rethink about his bowling. I have only seen him bat once in county cricket and seen him bowl on 4 days of test cricket (plus 2 odis). I've watched a reasonable amount of international cricket around the world and I can never recall seeing a spinner struggle with line and length as much as he did on those 4 days. I didn't have the benefit of seeing the 5 wicket haul as I was working on that day and would probably have skipped it anyway as it did look very much like a bore draw. Commenting on what I saw he was poor, maybe he will prove me wrong in the future or maybe the decent bowling is the norm and what I saw was him having a bad day but for me he isn't the saviour of English spin bowling.
JRC67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th November 2015, 10:45   #145
D/L
World Class
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Yorkshire CCC & England, Wakefield Trinity RLFC, Leeds Carnegie RUFC
Posts: 6,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRC67 View Post
I have no axe to grind with Rashid but if if is deliberately constantly bowling longhops and half volleys then he probably needs to have a serious rethink about his bowling. ....
Such exaggeration really make much further discussion quite pointless, I'm afraid.

As with nearly all leg spinners, there will always be a number of very hittable deliveries.
D/L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th November 2015, 08:24   #146
zahidiqbalrana
Bat In Hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1
They have done great job in UAE, though we drop test series but done very well in ODI, that was a great show.
zahidiqbalrana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th November 2015, 08:55   #147
cabinboy
Posting God
 
cabinboy's Avatar
Do Gooder
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summer of '77 View Post
I've just learned that my mate's father, George Fox, was made Man of The Series in England's successful defence of the Over-70s Ashes. He averaged 97 for the three match series, and is an opening bat. Get him to Africa !
Couldn't be worse pick a than Hales, Patel or Compton. It's going to be a long tour.
cabinboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th November 2015, 08:58   #148
Ali TT
Posting God
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinboy View Post
Couldn't be worse pick a than Hales, Patel or Compton. It's going to be a long tour.
72 days I think
__________________
WARNING
Reading the above post may cause bouts of nausea.
Ali TT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25th November 2015, 18:26   #149
cabinboy
Posting God
 
cabinboy's Avatar
Do Gooder
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali TT View Post
72 days I think
It's going to be a long 72 days.
cabinboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2015, 09:46   #150
Notts Exile
International Material
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Berkshire
Team(s): Notts and Forest
Posts: 1,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinboy View Post
It's going to be a long 72 days.
Yes, this ZA team is really something.
Notts Exile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2015, 11:41   #151
Chin Music
Administrator
 
Chin Music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: la sala de opinion equivocada
Team(s): ****
Posts: 23,567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notts Exile View Post
Yes, this ZA team is really something.
The quality of batting worldwide is an issue for test cricket. Too many players lack the patience and more than anything the defensive technique to play very long innings. Give a bit of help in the pitches and many a side becomes rather mediocre away from their comfort zone. However India are fairly cack against spin in their own conditions which I find incredulous. I mean Imran Tahir took a 5 fer in which only 1 ball (his 5th wicket of the innings) that actually got the batsman out rather than some pretty grotesque shots seeing the downfall of other players.
__________________
Quote:
"One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated" - Thomas More
Chin Music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2015, 18:28   #152
Ali TT
Posting God
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chin Music View Post
The quality of batting worldwide is an issue for test cricket. Too many players lack the patience and more than anything the defensive technique to play very long innings. Give a bit of help in the pitches and many a side becomes rather mediocre away from their comfort zone. However India are fairly cack against spin in their own conditions which I find incredulous. I mean Imran Tahir took a 5 fer in which only 1 ball (his 5th wicket of the innings) that actually got the batsman out rather than some pretty grotesque shots seeing the downfall of other players.
Recent experience from watching England would suggest that's how leggies pick up their wickets.
__________________
WARNING
Reading the above post may cause bouts of nausea.
Ali TT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2015, 02:41   #153
Chin Music
Administrator
 
Chin Music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: la sala de opinion equivocada
Team(s): ****
Posts: 23,567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali TT View Post
Recent experience from watching England would suggest that's how leggies pick up their wickets.
It is pretty much how our offie picks up his wickets too..............
__________________
Quote:
"One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated" - Thomas More
Chin Music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2015, 07:48   #154
Ali TT
Posting God
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,084
True.
__________________
WARNING
Reading the above post may cause bouts of nausea.
Ali TT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2015, 18:04   #155
Chin Music
Administrator
 
Chin Music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: la sala de opinion equivocada
Team(s): ****
Posts: 23,567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chin Music View Post
5th test v India 2014

Cook*
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Buttler+
Woakes
Jordan
Broad
Anderson

the likely line up against South Africa at Durban

Cook*
Hales?
Bell?
Root
Taylor?
Stokes
Bairstow+
Ali?
Wood/Finn
Broad
Anderson
So it is highly likely to be;-

Cook
Hales
Compton
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Finn

So there are 6 survivors from the side of a little less than 18 months ago, and it would have been 6 if Anderson had been fit instead of Woakes. I wonder how many changes might there be with this side in another 18 months?
__________________
Quote:
"One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated" - Thomas More
Chin Music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2015, 07:44   #156
Rebelstar
International Material
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,414
Quote:
Originally Posted by D/L View Post
As with nearly all leg spinners, there will always be a number of very hittable deliveries.
There was a leggie at my uni and his control was not great either, but sadly the captain went with a side filled with seamers when the variation could have been invaluable instead of he himself opening and bowling a bit of off spin.



Reading a BBC piece yesterday about which 2 out of 3 seamers would play with Broad it strikes me we're picking the 2 worst bowlers first - out of 5 not worst in the sense of further afield ie counties.

Or put another way Ali and Stokes seem to be shoe ins for the side because of their batting, it's a terrible approach to selection whether you think Rashid should be playing or Ali is the bees knees for whatever reason including how quickly he made it to an arbitrary landmark.
Rebelstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2015, 08:40   #157
Rebelstar
International Material
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chin Music View Post
So it is highly likely to be;-

Cook
Hales
Compton
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Finn

So there are 6 survivors from the side of a little less than 18 months ago, and it would have been 6 if Anderson had been fit instead of Woakes. I wonder how many changes might there be with this side in another 18 months?
Can't see that the top 5-7 is that much more reliable than the one starting in UAE. Bowlers were always going to be much of a muchness, whilst Anderson is flavour of the century because he's played long enough to have taken the most wickets, I think Finn is as capable of doing the business in any given Test, maybe more so.

I read some farcical rationale on BBC about Hales being the only England batsman to score hundreds in ODIs and T20Is or something like that, how that is relevant in Tests or that he averages just 25.17 in ODIs was somehow not included.

Compton comes back in to bat in a position he's not batted in Tests before boasting an average a fraction higher than the one Hick was ultimately cast aside permanently with, back in a time when averaging was generally lower so a mid to low 30s score more acceptable than nowadays.

Bairstow is given the gloves over Buttler, that Bairstow himself only averages 26.14 in Tests, only 0.27 higher than Bresnan, seems not to trouble the selectors. In 34 innings Bairstow is yet to make a Test hundred, does not average above the 33.31 he averages at #6 in any other batting position, and has averaged above 30 in only 2 Test series so far - 74.50 against South Africa batting only twice, 1 innings being his HS of 95 and being the only series he managed fifty in both innings, and 45.33 against the kiwis thanks in no small part to a not out (34 runs per innings)

Of course we have super down the order batsman Ali to score runs when pressure is off him, and shoe in Stokes who currently averages not a lot under 30 with bat, but under 30 nonetheless, and 40.44 with ball.

He does average 35.77 batting at #6 in fairness, but his last 11 inns at #6 have produced 248 runs @ 22.54 and his last six a meagre 32 runs @ 5.33. His six biggest scores have all come at #6, 566 runs @ 94.33, but take that away and you have 16 other innings at #6 at the rather more inadequate 13.81 with the point being 16 innings occur more often than 6.

Of course do that to most batsmen and you may well get a similar pattern if not result, but considering half those big six innings were against kiwis or windies and none for 11 innings, which Stokes are we going to expect.......?

He may excel like he did down under, except actually he only averaged 33.14 there batting at #6, or maybe like he did against the aussies here, except then he only averaged 28.00 batting at #6 despite hitting 181 runs in his first three knocks of the summer.



All in all the batting order looks like it could be quite fragile. Ballance is in the squad right? I think I'd be happier with him in there over one of Compton or Hales, more likely ahead of Hales as Compton may (or may not) prove very ordinary, but I think Hales has a lot less in his locker to face the new ball. This could be Carberry mk II.
Rebelstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th December 2015, 08:27   #158
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
Posting God
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chin Music View Post
So it is highly likely to be;-

Cook
Hales
Compton
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Finn

So there are 6 survivors from the side of a little less than 18 months ago, and it would have been 6 if Anderson had been fit instead of Woakes. I wonder how many changes might there be with this side in another 18 months?
Only Robson and Bell have been discarded. The rest are in the squad and could well be playing by the end of the series.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer
It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
geoff_boycotts_grandmother is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 17:43.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Cricket247.org