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Old 24th August 2010, 20:25   #41
Kim
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Are you puzzled by the cases where matches were lost or where elsewhere the blame should be placed?
the juxtaposition of leading to (suggesting blame)... and then placing blame elsewhere confuses me. But Ive had a terrible day so am not at my best.
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Old 24th August 2010, 21:24   #42
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If KP doesn't score well in Australia on those kinds of pitches against the filth of their fast bowling attack, then I think the selectors will really start to worry. There is zero chance of him being dropped before then.
I think you overestimate the Pakistan fielding.
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Old 25th August 2010, 08:46   #43
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Are you puzzled by the cases where matches were lost or where elsewhere the blame should be placed?
Well blame can be apportioned at times depending on who looks the most fragile. I don't blame Trott for batting too slowly at the Oval, but he got out to a very daft shot as did Colly, who indeed is looking more fragile but will possibly survive being culled with Bell coming back in for Morgan. Mention of Bell leads me to other collapses, starting with that one in Jamaica....................
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Old 25th August 2010, 09:00   #44
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You are quite right. The pressure to get on with it at 170 odd for 2 when there only 2 and a quarter days to go is immense in test cricket. The way Cook crumpled under the pressure of batting with Trott in that second innings at the Oval only sledgehammers home your very valid point.
But then you are a self confessed Trottite so this is a natural response.

I was impressed in his first few tests but then his farting around marking and remarking the crease led me to find something else to do when he was batting. Now that he seems to be controlling that he has dropped into the slow lane.

The number 3 batsman should be able to impose himself on the opposition - the best batsman in the side used to bat at 3. Pietersen should be doing it but he doesn't want to.
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Old 25th August 2010, 09:03   #45
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But then you are a self confessed Trottite so this is a natural response.

I was impressed in his first few tests but then his farting around marking and remarking the crease led me to find something else to do when he was batting. Now that he seems to be controlling that he has dropped into the slow lane.

The number 3 batsman should be able to impose himself on the opposition - the best batsman in the side used to bat at 3. Pietersen should be doing it but he doesn't want to.
Yeah but at the moment Pietersen is far from the best batsman, and I thought you'd rather enjoy that. Given the conditions of the last 3 test matches, Trott has shown an unflapability that I've quite liked and has often looked compact. I don't think for one moment that Pietersen could play there and actually may be better suited to No.5 with Bell at 6. Quite who we'd play at 4 if some of us are starting to feel that Colly is really struggling is another matter.
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Old 25th August 2010, 10:41   #46
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But then you are a self confessed Trottite so this is a natural response.

I was impressed in his first few tests but then his farting around marking and remarking the crease led me to find something else to do when he was batting. Now that he seems to be controlling that he has dropped into the slow lane.

The number 3 batsman should be able to impose himself on the opposition - the best batsman in the side used to bat at 3. Pietersen should be doing it but he doesn't want to.
Nothing to do with being a Trottite. Explain how, if batting with Trott imposes such pressure, Cook batted so well with Trott plz. Simple question. Im a bit old school about these Pakistan tests which are all ending well within 5 days. The currency in shortened games is runs not how quickly you get them.

The number 3's job in this series, in these conditions, against this good attack is to provide a solid base. It fantasy to suggest, with Cook and Strauss in general poor form, the number 3 can come in early and dominate against this attack with the ball moving. In 52 opportunities weve managed just 4 100 partnerships so far in this series. Trott has been involved in 3 of them. That will do for me.

Last edited by Kim : 25th August 2010 at 10:53.
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Old 25th August 2010, 11:18   #47
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Nothing to do with being a Trottite. Explain how, if batting with Trott imposes such pressure, Cook batted so well with Trott plz. Simple question. Im a bit old school about these Pakistan tests which are all ending well within 5 days. The currency in shortened games is runs not how quickly you get them.

The number 3's job in this series, in these conditions, against this good attack is to provide a solid base. It fantasy to suggest, with Cook and Strauss in general poor form, the number 3 can come in early and dominate against this attack with the ball moving. In 52 opportunities weve managed just 4 100 partnerships so far in this series. Trott has been involved in 3 of them. That will do for me.
Its funny Kim, although I'm in complete agreement with you here I do think a batsman's inertia can lead to putting pressure on a batsman at the other end recalling that 2nd ODI v Bangladesh for a start, and what fun we had discussing that then! Remember Collingwood 2nd innings at Adelaide (I try not to personally but I was suffering from jetlag and turned on to watch that in its full horror). His complete inability, unwillingness to rotate the strike helped put pressure on incoming batsmen at the other end who would face bowlers completely in a groove with plans to bowl at each batsmen. This is of course unquantifiable and therefore could be dismissed as b*ll*cks but I do belive there is something in it.
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Old 25th August 2010, 11:21   #48
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If batsman are presssurised by coming in at 170 odd for 2 with two days left they are a bit feeble.

As they proved.
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Old 25th August 2010, 11:22   #49
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Nothing to do with being a Trottite. Explain how, if batting with Trott imposes such pressure, Cook batted so well with Trott plz. Simple question. Im a bit old school about these Pakistan tests which are all ending well within 5 days. The currency in shortened games is runs not how quickly you get them.

The number 3's job in this series, in these conditions, against this good attack is to provide a solid base. It fantasy to suggest, with Cook and Strauss in general poor form, the number 3 can come in early and dominate against this attack with the ball moving. In 52 opportunities weve managed just 4 100 partnerships so far in this series. Trott has been involved in 3 of them. That will do for me.
I do agree that when it comes to providing a solid base Trott is your man. I am not as critical as you may have assumed me to be. There is a feeling of reassurance when he comes out to bat and books in for a long stay. I just think that he needs to make a slight adjustment to his approach by showing more intent to score. He doesn't have to aim to dominate but should be looking for run-scoring opportunities. He is very capable of scoring quickly, but when he gets into a "slow and steady" mode there is a danger of it turning into "slow and slower".
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Old 25th August 2010, 11:25   #50
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If batsman are presssurised by coming in at 170 odd for 2 with two days left they are a bit feeble.

As they proved.
As stated above I wasn't talking about the last Trott innings, although I do think his shot to get out was more than a bit feeble. He was looking good as he has done for a fair amount of this series. Then he got out, reminds me of a previous incumbent at 3 a few years ago who also plays for Warks.
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Old 25th August 2010, 11:27   #51
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I do agree that when it comes to providing a solid base Trott is your man. I am not as critical as you may have assumed me to be. There is a feeling of reassurance when he comes out to bat and books in for a long stay. I just think that he needs to make a slight adjustment to his approach by showing more intent to score. He doesn't have to aim to dominate but should be looking for run-scoring opportunities. He is very capable of scoring quickly, but when he gets into a "slow and steady" mode there is a danger of it turning into "slow and slower".
I dont disagree with that. Its the suggestion that this makes the others bat like lemmings that irks a little. Shouldnt ever undervalue the rock like player. Look how my shower Warwicks are batting this year without him.
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Old 25th August 2010, 11:31   #52
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As stated above I wasn't talking about the last Trott innings, although I do think his shot to get out was more than a bit feeble. He was looking good as he has done for a fair amount of this series. Then he got out, reminds me of a previous incumbent at 3 a few years ago who also plays for Warks.


Worst thing about Trotts innings is that, among the many absurd rituals I have when he is batting, is the rule that states I cant watch him live until he gets to 20. I missed half a days play as a result.
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Old 25th August 2010, 11:37   #53
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Worst thing about Trotts innings is that, among the many absurd rituals I have when he is batting, is the rule that states I cant watch him live until he gets to 20. I missed half a days play as a result.


Do you therefore have more absurd rituals than Trott himself? Is this by way of hommage?
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Old 25th August 2010, 11:57   #54
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Do you therefore have more absurd rituals than Trott himself? Is this by way of hommage?
Id never thought of that. You may be right. Although at least his scratching at the crease was borne from a practical purpose.

Mine involve taking no phone calls while hes in, then, in strict order, checking the match thread on here to ensure no one has posted hes out, then clicking onto cricinfo to check the number of wickets down hasnt changed -always waiting for cricinfo to load onto the screen with my eyes squeezed shut. then to the scorecard to see how many he's got, with fingers crossed in case he gets out mid click.

After that the rituals get silly.
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Old 25th August 2010, 14:19   #55
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Disagree entirely sans. Australia are an attacking side, who exert pressure through that attacking style.

The main way to defeat them I think, is to counterattack. As well as Ashes 2005 being the obvious example, two0 others which spring to mind are Sehwag out there in India's 2007/08 tour, you could see the difference in mentality when he came in. Or Sangakarra's fantastic Hobart innings in 2007 that same winter. Okay, Australia won both those series eventually as both of these examples were from positions of virtually a lost cause, but I still say counterattacking against Australia is the best chance of beating them. Come to that, Ashes 2009 we made the running at Lords, and indeed at The Oval in the 2nd Innings.

I believe that the bottom line is, one way or another to be successful against Australia, well their opponents must put the pressure back on them. Playing for a draw might work, or it might mean that the team who does this can eventually be worn down.
It's certainly true that the Aussies don't like it up 'em. But there are two important factors here I think:

(1) They are not a better team than us, so there shouldn't be any need for us to do anything extraordinary in order to disable them; and

(2) We don't need to win the series. This probably a little bit irrelevant from our point of view, since in most circumstances trying to win and trying not to lose involve the same actions, but it's worth bearing in mind nonetheless, particularly because it means that there is massive pressure already upon the Aussies. They have lost the Ashes and they desperately want them back. They won them back straight away 5-0 last time, and Ponting has promised his fans that they will do something similar this time, but he and everyone else knows that their team is pretty mediocre. They'll be playing in front of their own crowds, and if matches go by without them winning, they will begin to get very nervous. We already have the upper hand; they're the ones on the floor. We don't need to counterattack, we just need to defuse their attempts at counterattack.

In any case, I'm perfectly happy for Trott to play the way he has been and for others at the other end, who are perhaps more suited to such an approach, to counterattack if they feel the situation demands it. I just don't think that the situation will demand it unless we first dig ourselves into a hole.
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Old 25th August 2010, 16:45   #56
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Id never thought of that. You may be right. Although at least his scratching at the crease was borne from a practical purpose.

Mine involve taking no phone calls while hes in, then, in strict order, checking the match thread on here to ensure no one has posted hes out, then clicking onto cricinfo to check the number of wickets down hasnt changed -always waiting for cricinfo to load onto the screen with my eyes squeezed shut. then to the scorecard to see how many he's got, with fingers crossed in case he gets out mid click.

After that the rituals get silly.
I have similar with the Notts thread etc.

Except regarding the entire time Nottinghamshire are actually batting.
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Old 26th August 2010, 15:14   #57
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Strauss goes up to 22.
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Old 28th August 2010, 13:07   #58
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Old 28th August 2010, 13:51   #59
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Pietersen 24*
Strauss 22
Collingwood 8
Bopara 7
Morgan 5
Prior 3
Cook 1
Bell

Trott


*nb 9 innings since he was out for 99

Last edited by geoff_boycotts_grandmother : 28th August 2010 at 14:54. Reason: Happier ducks
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Old 28th August 2010, 13:55   #60
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I think you could at least find a couple of ducks who look happy.
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